Bootie's hot laptop

This. Some storage controllers are still called SCSI controllers if you look into the device manager.

@Bootie

Sorry for the delay. :grimacing:

I posted a little response elsewhere, started reading here, started my response here and got interrupted again (interruption galore here today).

It’s quite a lot to respond to and I’m typing my butt off here whenever I get the chance. And since I want it to be, at least somewhat comprehensive, it takes a “little” time (and English isn’t my native language either, so it takes some extra time on top).

Hell, I didn’t even get the chance to check out the update yet.

Most of it has to do with what @pegnose suggested about running background programs, by the way. A little bit more elaborate and probably (or “possibly”, in case of pegnose :wink:) some stuff that’s not so obvious (but can have a pretty significant impact, even on faster machines).

But don’t worry: it shall be done. :slight_smile:

When I play GenZ, I always do a clean reboot, and I check my starting apps so that nothing starts at boot except what I need to function (i.e. Anti-virus). Still fascinated to hear advice! Take your time - the DLC is fab!

If you do a fresh reboot and don’t do anything but play a known and already checked game, you could as well disable antivirus. On a dual core it can eat quite some performance in case it decides to scan something in the background. On my PC it sometimes just hogs a complete core for minutes.

Other than that your approach sounds solid to me.

EDIT: What you can do is read review of your and similar products and do some benchmarks to find out if you basically get the same base performance or if something is odd. Sometimes those laptop reviews also offer some performance tips and tricks.

Finally back. :slight_smile:

Well, it has something to do with translating Dutch to English (whilst finding the right words and the best phrasing), which in my head momentarily ended up as “long distance runner”. Which instantly triggered some “old fart” memories to:

Iron Maiden - Somewhere In Time - The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner

Not their best song, imho (in particular the drums during and after the chorus), but not their worst either. And although the subject/theme of the song is completely unrelated, some phrases are actually quite fitting for GenZ. :wink:

:metal::joy:

The short answer: I don’t know.

As a matter of fact, I actually had to look it up. Never have I seen one in real life nor have I seen any test results.

The long answer: I Dooooooooooooooooon’t knooooooooooooooooow. :crazy_face:

But here is what I think: Since it only blows on the bottom (outside) of the casing I suspect it’ll only marginally do something useful. Plastic completely sucks at transferring and dissipating heat. Aluminium obviously does not suck at transferring heat so it might be less marginal if your casing is made from aluminium. Especially if the casing is used as a heat sinks by design. But if not then it still sucks.

So, maybe it can help if your laptop gets just -slightly- too hot but I frankly don’t think it’ll be very useful. I suspect that at best it will only postpone the inevitable.

But again: that’s just my gut feeling (and a bit of knowledge about heat transfers). The ideal thing would be if you can test it yourself with someone who has such a thing and see if it makes any difference.

In any case, I would try out MSI Afterburner (or similar well known non-dubious monitoring software) first to see what temperatures and clock speeds you are getting right now. Don’t mind the little performance drop you may get from running it once now. Compare that to the given specs of your CPU/GPU and see from there.

No need to flush your money down the tubes if you’re getting top speed anyways to begin with. :slight_smile:

Small Computer System Interface. But it actually defines virtually everything (electrical specs, logical interface, protocol, command set, the whole shebang).

Because, Micro Sucks :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But seriously. Nobody seems to really know. Legacy, uniformity, bios quirks, chipset stuff. Fact is that a lot of other (newer) interfaces ((S)ATA, USB) use the SCSI command set. That’s probably why sometimes these devices are identified as SCSI devices (presumably when generic drivers are used). But for who really knows: please dump the answer here. :slight_smile:

Hmzzz. I’m “divided” on this one. It may indeed lower the temperatures because of that but if the CPU is continuously running it’s butt of anyways (which is very likely), it won’t really matter.
If this CPU has a higher “limited core boost” (which I’m not sure about from the top of my head), it can also boost performance -if- only one thread is very busy (but I suspect a very big -if- with this CPU).
And it may also cause lower performance because boosting the clocks back up is not instantaneous. Especially on slower CPU’s this may manifest itself more clearly.

But it’s worth testing in any case.

I always switch between modes and I hate extra clicks by going into settings (or the system tray if you're lucky to have it there), so I simply created a couple of shortcuts on my desktop. For anyone who wants to know how:
  1. Open a command prompt (no admin rights needed) and type:
    powercfg.exe /list
    Or, if you want a little easier time and plop the result in a text file on your desktop:
    powercfg.exe /list > %userprofile%\desktop\powerprofiles.txt
  2. Copy one of the GUID’s (looooooong hexadecimal number with dashes) out of the command prompt or textfile (and note the power plan it belongs to).
  3. Create a new shortcut (right mouse on desktop->New->Shortcut).
  4. In the location field of the shortcut dialog type:
    powercfg /s
    followed by a space and the GUID you copied before. Don’t bother trying to put the profile names themselves in; it won’t work … :wink:
  5. Click “Next”, give it a name (Such as High Performance, Balanced, or whatever you want) and click “Finish”
  6. If you want a nice icon: right click the new shortcut and change the icon in the properties (the file powercpl.dll in the standard system32 folder has some pretty nice and obvious battery icons).
  7. Repeat for the other (useful) profile(s).

@pegnose has a lot of good stuff mentioned. :slight_smile:

So, since most stuff in essence already got mentioned by now and since you already know how to disable startup stuff, that makes my “job” a lot easier. A lot less typing is obviously needed. :slight_smile:

Of course, you probably know all the “update your drivers”-stuff, so I won’t start there.

Here goes.

Virus-scanner

Pegnose already mentioned this but I’m not going to suggest that you disable it, even if you know exactly what you are running. Unless you are behind a real firewall, of course, then I’d say you can quite safely consider it. It will definitely boost performance significantly, at all times, and definitely with gaming.

However, what a lot of people don’t know is that (some) virus-scanners have options to restrict updating and scanning when an application is running full screen or when system usage is high. Although it might not detect it correctly, so it may not be as useful as it should be. So check that out in the settings of your scanner.

What also can help (if the scanner keeps checking game files or after a game update) is to add the game folder to the exclusions of the scanner. Now, this is obviously also somewhat “dangerous”, however, it’s definitely not as dangerous as disabling the entire scanner.

Startup programs

Also already mentioned. Obviously, some common sense is needed since you don’t want to disable stuff you actually need or use. But since you’ve already disabled a lot of this stuff, I’ll assume you know what you are doing. And of course, if you screw something up you can always re-enable them (assuming you keep track of what you did).

Nevertheless, here are some things you might have overlooked:

Disable everything :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Just kidding. But don’t forget all the updaters/managers, system utilities, Adobe updater crap, Office quick launch stuff, Java updater, etc.

And maybe even more importantly: peripheral software.

Crap like Logitech Gaming Framework, Corsair iCue, Sonic Suite, and similar programs (depending on the manufactures of course) you usually don’t need. Especially if the peripheral has onboard memory for profiles (don’t forget to check if the profile is actually written to the onboard memory). These can have a lot larger impact than you may ever expect.

Obviously you should keep software updated so you know the drill and update them yourself regularly. :wink:

Services

Now, after you have done that and restarted your computer, you might notice in the task manager that there are still processes running with familiar names. That’s because lots of them install some damned service along with it, which does not automatically gets disabled when you stop the application itself from starting.

So, open up Services (you need admin privileges for this). Forget the services and details in the task manager. It’s just pile of confusing crap anyways. Type Services in the start menu or Services.msc in a run box.

Since I don’t know what software you have, you’ll obviously have to use your own insight here. Select the service and go to its properties (right click). Stop the service and change the start up type to “Manual”. That should do it and that should start the service only when you start the application manually. However, some are stubborn and still start anyways on reboot. So check back and, if it’s still running, repeat the process but this time change the start up type to “disabled”.

Now for the more “interesting” part. Don’t close services just yet. :slight_smile:

System Services

Now here is potentially a lot to disable but most are not worth the trouble, so (I) don’t even bother. I also assume you have disabled all the standard telemetry crap/security holes from MicroD*** already. And OneDrive, Cortana, Windows Store and all the other standard bloat crap too.

Here are two performance hogs:

1. Windows Search Indexer

You can disable this per disk and/or entirely.

“Disable” per disk:
In a Windows Explorer, right click a drive, go to the properties and uncheck “Allow files on this drive to have contents indexed in addition to file properties”. You’ll get a prompt to do it for all files and sub folders. It can take a long, looong, looooong time to execute that command so go grab a beer … or two … or three. :wink:

Disable entirely:
In the Services look up “Windows Search”, stop it and set the startup type to disabled.

Frankly, I’m not sure if only disabling the service still causes a performance impact (because it leaves the indexing information on the files and that may be still loaded when accessing them). So I simply did both on my system and game disk.

The “downside” is that searches on your computer (including searches in the start menu) will take considerably longer. So you’ll have to live with that. I personally don’t care because I know where my stuff is. :slight_smile:

2. Superfetch

Why this useless service exists -at all- is completely beyond me! They should boot the “genius” that “invented” this crap (and do all kinds of horrible stuff to that idiot too :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:).

This service has the misleading description: “Maintains and improves system performance over time”.

Well, what it does is something like this: It analyses your usage of the computer and makes an “educated” guess about what program(s) you use most and which one(s) you are most likely going to use next.
And it then loads them into your precious memory just in case you need it, so it starts up a little faster. About the same useless concept as on your mobile phone. Which obviously means that memory has to be freed (and possibly swapped to disk) whenever you start something else.

So look for the description I mentioned and disable it (no startup type “manual” for this one since then it then definitely starts). It’s either called “Superfetch” or “SysMain” (depending on the exact Windows version; because MicroSucks just looooves to rename their stuff. Especially if it can annoy the crap out of people who want to keep control over their own machine. Grrrrrrrr! :rage:

One thing that you may notice is that some stuff loads a little slower when you first start it (including the system tray stuff on boot that you didn’t disable). However, in stead of starting faster and performing slower, I rather see it the other way around. :upside_down_face:

V-Sync

Here is one in-game option you might not have considered:

Since the 940M does not support G-Sync, one option is to either enable or disable v-sync (in the display settings of GZ; and assuming it is not forced either way in the nVidia control panel).

Now, this is first of all, a matter of personal preference. However it might also actually boost performance (or experience) either way.

Disabling v-sync can increase the frame rates in situations where less has to be drawn. The downsides are that you get screen tearing (which I personally can’t stand) and that frame rates vary a lot more from situation to situation.

Enabling v-sync can provide more consistent frame rates which gives a more fluent (predictable) experience. It -can- also relieve the system from some of it’s load because the system has to wait for the vertical sync of the monitor before sending the frame, processing the world and drawing the next frame (although this does depend on the game engine).

Although, when frame rates drop too low, v-sync enabled can also start to completely screw up the fluidity. It basically “depends” … so you’ll just have to try and see for yourself what feels better.

Well, that’s about it. Let me know what you think and if you noticed any improvement in performance (or temperatures). :slight_smile:

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We have a winner :sparkler::tada::trophy:

@Voodoo has done the longest posting in this forum so far. Congratulations! :smile:

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You could start by lifting the back part of your notebook a bit from the desk with a book or something. If your air intake is on the bottom, that might already help increase air flow.

I just leave the power setting open. Switching between modes on Windows 10 is just a radio button toggle, works instantaneous.

That actually is a really good idea! Why do I always forget about this one.

I seem to remember Gamers Nexus having a recent testing video on exactly this.

This can be a little tricky due to knowledge about service names and what they are doing. I suggest consulting the Task Manager frequently to get an idea what services actually eat up CPU.

Good idea. Windows search sucks anyways. If you need a quick file search, use Ultrasearch. This one searches the Master File Table instead of the files themselves. The MFT already acts as an index, so this method is super fast.

Not sure about this one, I don’t remember it being recently mentioned anywhere else in the same context.

What kind of fps do you get, @Bootie? You can check on that with MSI Afterburner as well. Or use the indicator that Steam provides.

PS: Holy mega-post, Voodoo! :slight_smile:

Hi guys,

Well I might be a bit further forward - I hunted down unneeded services and then looked at graphics, and found that the machine was trying to use default graphics (i.e. on-board graphics as opposed to Game Card) in all circumstances, So i made GZ a specific exception (to force it to use the graphics card) and tried again - milions of enemies and it only got slightly warm, not hot like normal. the on-board graphics is two megs, the Card 4megs.

The case is aluminium, not plastic and the whole right hand side of the comuter was getting hot as it spread the heat! I’ll try again, but i think that’s helped. I always do a clean boot before I play (it only take 20 seconds!). I’ll go through @Voodoo’s post again in detail (and Peggy’s) and see if i can’t get it even happier!

Thanks guys

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So to sum it up (did I understand it correctly?) you switched from integrated graphics to the dedicated one (makes perfect sense, we did not think about the possibility you are using the IGP) and that solved a major part or the heat issue.

That sounds like your laptop has at least a half decent cooling solution for the nvidia card, while the one for the CPU is at its limit during gaming sessions. Distributing the heat further is really good, particularly with a metal case. Then an active cooling might even help further, but if that won’t increase your performance, it might just be too much.

I would be interested in your frame rate (fps). Do you gain fps with the dedicated GPU? This is not necessarily the case, but I really hope so. Due to the nvidia card being slightly more powerful and the CPU’s lesser throttling due to heat.

And if your fps still DE-crease over time with heat, you might benefit from more aggressive cooling.

I usually just use the Steam overlay for fps monitoring. You find it in the Steam settings under “In-Game”. There you need to activate “Enable thee Steam Overlay while in-game” and then further down set the “In-game FPS counter” to “Top-right”, e.g.

Let us know.

All right - I’ll have another go tonight and let you all know (a whole thread all to myself, what joy!) Srtill orther people might find the advice useful, who knows?

Thanks! :joy:

Although, when comes to pure length then I’ve already been “beaten” a little while ago. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Good point.

That uses RAM and also a bit of CPU. Which is not something you want if you are low on resources to begin with. :wink: Besides, double clicking a (persistent) shortcut is a lot more convenient, imho.

Correct. That’s not where I got the info from btw. I’ve been disabling this stuff for a lot longer than I care to remember :slight_smile:

Agreed. That’s why I explicitly assumed common sense and hinted at familiar names (that you thought to have disabled in the start up.

This is not the standard search application. You can still search like you are used to (only slower). It merely disables content indexing. Content indexing basically creates a “library with key words” for the actual contents of each file along with the file properties. Even the contents of e-mails are indexed.

I just search myself, usually. It helps if you keep your stuff (or at least the more important stuff) somewhat organised. Searching an entire disk sucks but searching in a specific folder isn’t so bad.

Nothing gets mentioned before it gets “discovered” :wink:

What impact is has most likely depends on your configuration (amount of ram, programs you use, etc) and probably mainly on Microsoft’s “mood”. Of course, you won’t suddenly double your frame rate or something but you may be surprised what effects it can have.

Like @pegnose said: that’s, obviously, not something we thought about. That’s, also obviously, something that should not happen. But good stuff finding that out!

I found a little video comparing the two in a couple of games:

The methodology of that guy completely sucks, obviously, so that says a lot about the reliability. But it may give you an idea. It’s not really a lot faster in a lot of games but in some others it is.

Nevertheless, Using the dedicated card shall also mean that there is more RAM available for the game itself (because that one has didicated graphics memory and the IGP uses system memory).

Yeehaw! :smiley:

That video is interesting because it was a controversy among people and only certain 3rd party tools and combos were actually harmful. So for some it’s worth a watch.

True, but if Windows search with indexing is already slow…

Agreed, I usually know where my own stuff is (imagine people who don’t). Ultrasearch is great for when something tells you that you have a certain file somewhere on your disk. Plus the format of the Windows search output is so horrible.

Huh, I’ll give it a shot!

Very good point!

Ceterum censeo… tell us your fps, Bootie! We wants to know! :slight_smile:

(without v-sync, of course - uncapped that is to get an idea of what your system can do, on, let’s say, the Medium preset)

EDIT: @Voodoo It turns out that Windows 8+ dynamically ignores SSD drives for Superfetch (which now is called “Sysmain”).

I was watching the cricket, when I should have been playing! Out tonight to dinner, so it’ll have to wait for tomorrow…

You have a terrarium?

Fuuunnnyyyy! Yes, but mine is flat, with just grass, and little tiny stumps at each end in the middle. It took the insects a while to get the hang of it, but it’s rivetting now. I had to ban the wasps, 'cos they kept killing the other players, and the ants try to get five million fielders onto the pitch, which rather alters the balance of the game…

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I am inclined to apologize for my poor self control. But your reply tops it off so nicely. :smiley:

Dynamically as in “randomly” or “when it feels like it”? I don’t know what the deal exactly is with that but it still manages to have an effect on my machine. Maybe because I also have a mechanical hdd as data disk?
Anyways … it sucks. :smile:

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Dynamical as in it does not fetch anything from SSDs. “Selective” would maybe more fitting. Of course, when you also have an HDD, superfetch will fetch. Apparently the most noticeable effect is on concurrent reads/write to the same medium, although it also costs a fraction of the CPU. RAM impact should be negligible as superfetch data will be freed/overwritten as soon as the space is needed. AFAIK.

EDIT: The idea is not bad though (for non high-demand machines). It has been replicated in many facets such as SSHD drives, dedicated SSD cache devices, and even RAM disks (either persistent or not).

Oh, the game with built in tea breaks? Yeah, that’s a game for real men, that is :joy::coffee::cookie::cricket:

Freeing memory (and the administration that comes along with it; on multiple levels) takes time. Memory management is not “for free”.

That can be especially problematic if your program (in this case Generation Zero) dynamically allocates (and/or de-allocates) a little bit of (extra) memory regularly during the execution of the program. If Windows stuffed that memory with other crap it has to do -something- every single time that that happens.

Of course it all depends on the exact implementation of memory management in the OS (and they are probably smart about it) but it shall have some impact. :slight_smile: