Change my View: Generation Zero is over

Could be worse. I mean look at Borderlands 3 and the the cluster release they had and that is big box developer. They won’t even communicate with the fan/player base and most dropped off the face of the earth months ago. Most would have stayed had a peep even came from the developers or addressed any feedback and instead we had a bunch of literal ‘crap’ put in game nobody wanted. They forced patches across all boards that literally broke consoles(xbox), constant crashed PS4’s and corrupted saves across the whole board, made the game unplayable(still an issue) on PC because of HUD scaling. They broke the scaling system and now the weapons in the base game are so overpowered that a strong rarity weapon will last you over 20 level.They also dare to say the game is in a great spot when their forums are on fire and bugs not even addressed from day one launch.

Like I said, at least stuff is being worked on to address fans and I am on PS4 and would rather be running the old ‘stable’ version than something new keeping me from playing/enjoying the game. Risk of Rain always patches to PC at least one month before console to monitor for bugs/balance/stability.

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But then why do they halvelly add stuff like the, if I get it right, broken bikes?
I do not see those in the originally story board.
Is actually anyone using these?
Or, what is the point of an option to remove them [settings], but it does nothing?

While many said, the game is too soft, why did they add even stronger weapons for us?

I find it odd, that some more logical requests got ignored, but then things like that get added.
Sure, many asked for transport, and a bike, but others, more even, asked for other machine types, or other more related content.
There’s a post for machine ideas that’s quite long.

I’ve seen ideas for other things that could be really well implemented.
But we got Plundra.

So… bizarre…

Sorry, I think it’s nice to take ideas into a game, but let them be story compatible, please.
A Plundra that magically follows us (nighly giving me periodes of paranoia XD ) seems just not that GZ, does it?

One of the true uniqnessess of the game was the very lack of human NPC’s.
All we ran into were machines aiming for our behind.
When we finally had someone on a radio… he died being overrun by a Runner.
Brilliant.
But why, oh why alter that part…
Twice even.

I loved the core game, awesome setting, awesome period, dead people, more no that alive people, then some horribly dead people… that feeling is gone with the introduction of human NPC’s.
Only because one or two brought them up in streams…

Ah well… sic vita est.

I can only hope the Devs know what they are doing, really… story/content wise, I mean.

Well, when the bicycles appeared, I tried them out once and then left them because I prefer to walk around the map. As I said before, the game is too weak for some, too strong for others.
Here we come back to the point that you can argue about taste excellently.

The problem of the devs will be, since they have to satisfy as many people as possible, to find the happy medium. I still remember that this year, shortly before the beginning of summer, a survey took place where one should tick one’s wishes.

Probably so many have called for the melee weapons (baseball bat and sledgehammer) that they have been integrated into the game.

Here too, opinions differ as to whether that made sense.

Ever stronger weapons?
Until now nobody has forbidden me to blow away some hunters with my rusty old KVM59.
I don’t have to use the overly powerful weapons.
I use the experimental weapons very little. I can hardly tell the difference between the experimental Klaucke and the golden Klaucke, except that the golden one looks more chic with its nickel-plated slide.

I’ve played most of the game with my golden AK4. And mostly I always have the same weapons with me. The 5 * AK4, 5 * KPIST and the 4 * Magnus revolver.

Of course, a storyboard is alive and can change during the story. As I said, I’ve already written stories where almost at the end I had no idea how they should end. Somehow it then developed.
It will certainly be the same here.

But the studio also has to see it from a commercial point of view and address as many potential players as possible, because unfortunately only with money can such a game be kept alive and developed.

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Another indicator for the community being very much alive is the fact that IGP uploaded a GZ video 2 days ago and it has 270k views, here are some positive comments about the game and their upvotes:



I think this is a pretty good indicator that many people are still at least interested in the game and following its development :slight_smile:

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That’s actually bloody nice, sir!!!
Good to see positive vibes for a change.

I really hope, many will actually buy the game. :slight_smile:
GZ, the Team and the Community deserves it.

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And for anyone who has been wondering what devs have been up to all this time, since GZ’s release, here’s: Content chronicle of Generation Zero

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Someone’s been busy.

Good stuff

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GZ was/is part of the September Humble Bundle so there might be some new players in the next time…

And/or because of that the “usual supects” (aka Keysellers) have some Keys for cheap in stock, too…

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I meant outside the bundle, sir.
Actually interested because of that video.

There’s been FAR too much negativity surrounding GZ.
Some might be true, but most, IMHO, is not…

Gotta understand some people will be sour without expectations met. A lot of games, even AAA titles go through or are going through similar things. GZ crew is at least addressing and working on it even if people don’t agree with the timeliness.

Dev response is a virtue if you ask me and gets my respect.

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Generation Zero being “over” is only negativity, but i´m curious, what other games are having similar situations?

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Borderlands 3, they lost about 85% of players even before the last 2 DLCs were released. I am one of them. I haven’t even played half the content I paid for because they changed the game literally 5 months after release to something NOBODY asked for. I paid for the Deluxe editions ($240 for my wife and I, we are huge Borderlands fans) On release of patches the game BRICKED some peoples xboxs and Gearbox just told the people it was a Microsoft issue and need to contact them. There is still constant crashes on PS4 and graphic issues on PC rendering the game unplayable. The GBX team does not communicate or let know what they are working on. They still have day one bugs they don’t even address or talk about. They changed ALL of the end-game content that messed up the base game and they can’t even fix it (they could just revert it and people would be happy), instead they just unbalanced the game further and said “everything is in a good spot” when over 99% of the weapons are worthless with the new content they put. They don’t respond to feedback AT ALL, and just keep adding stuff that makes the game worse not better,… instead of just listening!

Risk of Rain 2, Hopoo, rolls out updates/fixes on consoles always at least a month or more after PC to monitor the fixes since PC is easily patched. This gives them time to adjust for consoles with a more stable update.

Hello Games went dark after No Mans Sky release with the negativity and came back over a year later with a fantastic update and brought new life to the game.

Techland who made Dying Light and in development of Dying Light 2 still made a DLC to a ‘scrapped’ title and brought it to Dying Light as a Mideval Fantasy theme and people were pissed the DLC was too much money and didn’t add enough to the game. So Techland literally added more things to the DLC as an update and as a way to make people happy.

Sure everyone has a right to feel the way they want about a developer or game. I am sour at Gearbox right now for literally changing the endgame to something trashy I and all my friends didn’t like when they had it right the first time. Difference to me is the way the devs respond and handle feedback. Don’t get me wrong, I just started this game a week ago on PS4 and came to the forum to see the community spirit. I am having a blast so far and have some of my buds hopping in as well. But what I liked a lot about this forum is that the devs respond and are actively progressing. Not at everyones pace, but a pace. They literally could have just dropped the game and said “there ya go have fun!”, but no, they are working and staying in touch with their fans. What more could you ask?

TLDR:
(Techland, Hopoo, Avalanche, and Hello Games all show signs of developers who are there for the game and their fans)
(Gearbox/Randy Pitchford seems to be for greed and could care less about the actual game or players and screws its own developers(and players) out of money)

Sources to see recent reviews of the DL DLC and BL3 DLC: (negative reviews)
(NOTE: the Hellraid DLC by techland is trending upwards with positive after developers added more content to it to please the players)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1233061/Borderlands_3_Psycho_Krieg_and_the_Fantastic_Fustercluck/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1300710/Dying_Light__Hellraid/

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I asked “having”, Hello games messed up at Launch and in the following months, and from 2017 to now they surpassed themselves
Dying light is also a bad example, because the game always pushed forward and it was always great, it´s almost 6 years old and they keep giving support to the game (usually in most games they stop after 1.5, 2 years), Hellraid was a side project from them, so it´s a bonus if anyone wants to kill medieval zombies.
Now about Borderlands 3, I feel sorry for you and for everyone else, and I have to be on the side of the players, but you know something?
Since PS3/Xbox 360 and early development games first appeared, there is a Simple rule one must follow, never but never buy a game at launch or in the following months because they always mess up! Unless they are from Japan, it´s always a bad move and it´s a constant thing. This days products are not well tested at launch either because they are greedy and clumsy or because Companies push too much the development teams.
Now about me? It´s almost one year since I started playing this game and I find it unique and special, one that even after being 100% completed, I keep playing.
The problem was that even with some bugs, the game was Fine till April 27, then all changed, and the team did not made a patch to fix it. I just stopped playing the game, it was not the same thing and it´s unfortunate.
Now, no one can contest the devs don´t communicate, it´s a thumbs up for them, well done, it´s just unfortunate things had to be like this for the 5 months(soon 6 months).
That´s it, now, some people get a bit crazy with some hate, one thing is acknowledging the mistakes the Team did, other is hating them and behaving like little spoiled kids.
I look forward for the day the game is back on track in all platforms.
I´m sorry for this being so long, and I´m glad you are another fan!

Note: I feel your pain about Borderlands 3, a 4x space strategy game called Stellaris was great from 2016 to mid 2018, the devs just changed everything and did not fix the late game lag and bugs, and each expansion adds almost nothing and it´s worth a small fortune (20 euros/dollars!!!) that is the price of many “Normal” games, i´m glad GZ DLC is always cheap.
Paradox Interactive are thieves (shame shame shame shame)
Good thing there are many mods or the game would just suck.

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Sadly, not completely true, but it can feel like it!

They had decades of more practice :rofl: All seriousness, we have companies like Sucker Punch Productions that puts out solid games on release.

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Of course not all games have lots of bugs at launch, but these days (last 10 years) there are more than they ever were.
Some are fixed in weeks, others take more time.
Good luck with Borderlands…now I know why it´s always on sale, they won´t get my money :sweat_smile: .
If you play on PS4, may we one day team up against the machines, and if not, keep up the good fight, the Resistance! :wink: .

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If you are ever down buddy, PSN: JayBowdy

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That is funny. The June 2020 update is what alienated me with the great softening of the enemy :broken_heart:. I thought April 2020 was fabulous :two_hearts: . I put a good 200+ hours in with April 2020, and I will continue to do so despite the softening of June 2020 once I get through a few other games.

I am going to use No Man’s Sky as a great game to compare to. NMS was a flop when it was introduced. The game was missing a lot of content from the trailers, there were no structures, there was barely any multiplayer interaction, and who knows what else.

Using data from
https://steamcharts.com/app/275850

September 2016 average number of players: 2,982
September 2017 average number of players: 2,146
September 2018 average number of players: 5,911
September 2019 average number of players: 9,019
September 2020 average number of players: 8,526

NMW has released update after update after update giving the player base what was originally promised. Yes, it took a few years, but look at how their average player count has multiplied. Sure, September had a slight dip from 2019, but looking at their overall numbers you can tell they are most certainly on an uptrend.

My point is GZ is still a baby. A toddler now, actually. They still have plenty of opportunities to make the game even better and providing the content that everyone would like. I may not have played GZ in several months because of the other games I have been wanting to play, but I keep coming back to the forums because I know I will eventually play again.

Why do I like the game? The hunt. I pick a Rival :robot:, I prepare a few days with plenty of medkits, adrenaline, and ammo, and I essentially go hunting. If I am lucky, I will find a Rival with plenty of robots around it making it more challenging. Sometimes I even have to face palm myself with the number of robots I have to deal with. The last Tank Rival I went hunting for eventually got noticed by several Harvesters, Tanks, Hunters, etc. Even with the great softening of June 2020, this turned out into a fabulous battle because of the sheer number of bots I had to deal with. The battle occurred in the ruins above Lovnas in the north east corner of the map. I essentially used the ruins as my own mini maze. I couldn’t stop moving in and out of the ruins. This was probably the best moment I’ve had in this game :smiley:. If April 2020 was still in effect, this would have been extremely difficult, but the end result would have been even more satisfying.

But I digress. GZ still has plenty of different land areas to explore should they choose to open them up. The possibilities with new industrial robots is endless. Vehicle usage could still be a thing. They can still add softer difficultly levels and add a harder difficultly level akin to April 2020. And most importantly, there is still the chances of adding a larger 80s soundtrack. :star_struck: There is so much more they can do to build it up.

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@Flybye
That… is so beautiful put…
Now I envy those that had April’s patch even more…
… as I missed this period… cries loudly

I 10’000% agree:the game is extremely too soft.
“Many” asked to tune down the game, saying, it is too hard in skirmish mode.
“Many” others then, and me, let me be honest here, being the loudest and most active on this topic, asked for harder game.

The Devs tried to fix this by slapping on more armour, add more damage, increasing the aggro range, all by itself, not too bad, as it takes longer to kill a machine, indeed, the risk of death increases.

But to me, that felt like a really cheap method to try and fix balance, especially considering that the Machine AI is heavily failing.
Which is what makes it so easy to kill machines off while being “safe”.
Note, “safe” of course is a hyperbole to express a point.
Engaging 13 machines, and making it out alive (heavily wounded, granted, and having lost a ton of HP packs) should absolutely NOT be possible.
Engaging 2 Runners should be darn lethal.
That is how it would be in reality.

Think about it: compare it with a welder robot in a car factory.
These NEVER miss a welding spot, and weld God knows how many welds a minute.
These are dang fast, and beyond accurate.
IF something went wrong, they sense this (through various sensors, like laser lights and whatnot) they act instantaneous.
They don’t take a break, for whatever reason (unless, as per the above line, something is off).

GZ Machines then:
They react very often far too late, sometimes even 10 seconds.
They react not at all, in very few cases.
If they react, then they stand still to shoot, very often resulting in a miss.
Tactics is something that is beyond their interest seems, although EACH one is from military origin.

These things break the game, not just in playability, but in story as well.
How could these bugged microwaves have done what they did?
Impossible.

One explanation we jokingly came up with for the death toll on human side was quite straight forward: The GZ Earths gravity, which seems like 5 times our gravity strength.
Most troops and civilians probably tripped over pebbles and alike, only to drop dead due to impact on the ground.

If the Machine AI gets repaired, and works as it should be working, rest assured, all machines will have their armour and health rating halved.
At the very least halved.

The massive amount of armour and life has been implemented to counter the lack of Machine AI.
Fixing the AI, thus, would result in this amount of armour no longer being needed.

OK, that been said:
In reality, in OUR reality, if those machines from G…
No, wait, let me put this differently:
Imagine GZ took place right here, on Earth.
With OUR people, OUR governments, OUR visions about army and warfare.
A simple Shotgun Runner here, would be so lethal, it would, in comparison to human soldier capability, be a full division by itself, IF it was not hampered by ammo shortage.

If we then consider… 4 of these… and 2 Hunters… and 1 Tank… it (hyperbole) would be enough to take Sweden out.
Note: hyperbole.
I would not know how many it would take, but I assure you… it won’t be many.

And this in GZ?
No.
That would be absolutely no fun.
I mean: it would mean basically death for lifting a foot.
That would be, although realistic, just crazy to play in.

Balance is needed.
It should be survivable, but by very hard work, and luck.
Balance is needed, through fixing the Machine AI.
Not balance by cheap means such as weapon modification, tuned down aim, very high bullet spread, and bullet disintegration (I’ve seen .50 ammo fall apart before impact, making several trails).
Even with Marksman maxed out, the game does weird things with ammo being shot from our side.
That’s not realistic, come on.

Pistols shoot just as far as rifles.
Sure…
Reality in that regard is inexistent.
A .50 sniper rifle, shot at a target 350m away, should hit where aimed (when Marksman is maxed out).
Because that is the simple function of a sniper rifle: to hit targets beyond the range of any other rifle type.
And neutering just that, is turning the weapon into… well… even a Meusser or Stud has higher accuracy, go figure.
This is just wrong.

Some speak of reality, but when you point at reality, suddenly it’s … I’m not even sure what.
Pistols should not be able to be effective beyond maximum 60 meters.
And a Hunting Rifle should NEVER be able to out-perform a sniper rifle in all points but damage.
Since, the sniper rifle was made for extreme long range assault.
And later, to be an Anti-Material rifle, to take out cars, busses, even, with a lucky shot, a tank.
That is the sole purpose of a sniper rifle.

The April’s patch made one big mistake: it was all but optional!
It should have been implemented as a separate game mode, maybe called Guerilla Plus.
It should NEVER have been dropped on everyone like it was dropped on everyone.
Since some people, just are not this hardcore.
If it had been optional, people would not have complained as they did.
And some of the players then, like me, and apparently you, sir @Flybye, as well, having finally some challenge.

Interesting: it has been asked before, as an option… why did they decide to make these changes go mainstream instead?
I fail to get the logic behind it…

Ennywho, that’s how I see it.
Feel free to react, to disagree, but please, if you disagree, motivate why?
Actually, I encourage you all to react. :slight_smile:

Thank you.

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Have you read the Steam comments under the most recent dev letter ?
The antagonism is almost tangible.

I haven’t, but No Man’s Sky’s first couple of years were pretty brutal. Everyone bashed every single update. There were countless memes of their developer’s director, Sean Murray, and how he lied to the public, etc. It was BAD lol.