5.56 / 7.62 balance via Experimental change

Convert [Experimental AG4] (7.62) assault rifle into new [Experimental AG5] (5.56).
Convert [Experimental Kvm59] (7.62) LMG into new [Experimental Kvm89] (5.56) LMG.

This would create a harmony and logic in bullet type balance as now each and every Armour-Piercing ammo would now have exactly 1 Experimental weapon which utilises it.
Naturally this will require editing of weapon models to recolour and decorate as appropriate. All players will maintain the exact same amount of weapons.

This would be an improve over the current situation where:
5.56 weapons [AG4] and [Kvm59] are currently practically utterly redundant (and inferior to their 7.62 counterparts by every measure) other than a means to use up 5.56 ammo (which is not necessary because people can happily recycle ammo these days).
A player with US weapons DLC might have motivation to utilise 5.56, but
I don’t expect that to drive DLC sales. US weapons DLC also means you have TWO 7.62 LMGs making the [Kvm89] (5.56) even more redundant.

5.56 ammo is very common but [AG5] weapon (5.56) is much more rare as a drop than [AG4] weapon (7.62) not least because Experimental drops are so common and huntable (just go for rivals). Although, your currently equipped weapon does affect ammo type loot.

Currently every Armour Piercing bullet in the game has a corresponding Experimental weapon EXCEPT for 5.56. The only ammo with two utilising Experimental Weapons is 7.62.
Somewhat irrelevant note: [Kvm89] is shockingly rare because it drops only from apocalypse enemies. I didn’t even know that it existed until already level 31, all main missions complete, and having all experimental weapons in the game.
It may be preferable for the more-powerful [Kvm59] (7.62) to be the more-rare weapon.
The biggest issue I see with implementing a change would be Magazines. Should they be totally ignored? (This is probably best as is maintains the economy) Should equipped magazined be converted? (Individuals might be happy but this would dramatically affect the amount of each magazine that exists in people’s inventories for trading purposes, making some rarer and some more common which would only normalise over time.) Should all equipped magazines be cloned? (Again this would cause a sort of value inflation and could be exploited.) Should exactly 1 magazine (the highest quality) be cloned per savefile. Should everyone simply get 1 free mag?

Thanks for reading so far. Now you tell me!:

  • I explicitly think nothing should be changed
  • Experimental AG4 should become Experimental AG5
  • Experimental Kvm59 should become Experimental Kvm89
  • I’m convinced / agree - but can’t decide which should change
  • I don’t mind whatever happens / I just wanted to vote too

0 voters

(Personally I find this vote very difficult, but when taking into consideration US weapons DLC having the [N60] as a major 7.62 drain, and the [N16] being a moderate 5.56 drain - I think balance is best achieved through making 5.56 much higher in demand by creating the Experimental Kvm89. Also the rarity of machineguns means less total individual guns being changed.)

And now to really disrupt this whole conversation before it gets started…
Another less-messy solution would be simply to add an [Experimental AG5] or [Experimental Kvm89] without any removals/conversations. If the new weapon and its special effect are desirable enough, this would spawn a non-redundant use for 5.56 ammo.


Or just remove all exp weapons. Problem solved :slight_smile:


Just to remove one experimental weapon in order to make other, less used weapon, more popular is not a right nor smart way to do things. All it creates, is outrage from the players who love the current experimental weapon.

E.g hunting/sniper rifles. If devs would remove experimental .50 cal and give it’s ability to .270, which is the least used hunting/sniper rifle in the game, there will be uproar from every player who loves the experimental .50 cal.

Best way to increase popularity/usage of a weapon would be making experimental version of it. E.g KVM 89, which could get belt-fed ability. Meaning that the experimental KVM 89 doesn’t need to be reloaded at all.


Nitpicking, but the machinegun is belt-fed. Did you mean “uninterrupted belt”?

For the topic: tl; dr - leave as it is, because 5.56 suxx.
Problem with 5.56 guns is in it’s cartridge, that is good enough against meat and has good balance between quantity, weight and effectiveness. However, these are bad anti-material rounds. In-game I’ve got impression that 5.56 has best base penetration and with low-impulse recoil, so I think their niche is DPS destroying components. But SP/HP rounds do way better job, albeit with far less DPS.

I mean there’s no good redeeming features for 5.56 round. 7.62 will get you more damage per weight unit, 9mm SMG gets good DPS in close combat and has better multiplier on components (I have better impression of MP5 than FNC of same quality and M/46 may give better consumption rates, despite 9mm SMG is rather weak round itself).

Even if we asked for opinion about new exp. guns for 5.56, I’d answer that effects should be around guns themselves, since there’s no way we could get bullet that tiny “special”, even if we consider existing Glock. Fire rate increase is already occupied, so it’s either “no-recoil” (as in balanced and compensated inner mechanisms, see AK-107) or “target assist” (gun autoaims on component and “corrects” aiming to consistently hit the component, even full auto)

Yes. Since we now have a fixed amount of ammo box under it, ranging from 40 rounds to 200.
It would be neat ability, unique and would make the weapon and 5.56mm ammo overall more useful.

It seems to you haven’t read my suggestion on even the most basic level.
and have instead decided to announce your own feelings an ideas.

The basic concept of my thread, see the title, is to make 5.56 relevant via an experimental weapon, which surely address your reservations about the shortcomings of 5.56? Also I think you should worry about rationalising munitions less but that’s entirely your own prerogative.
Appreciate your new 5.56 experimental suggestions though.

In that case I’d like to make .32, .44, .243, .270 relevant via experimental guns too, especially .44, which has obscene drop amount from FNIX hunters and very slow consumption rate. These four calibers are usually goes into scrapper due to ubiquity and small stack size for recycling. Except for those who actually use them.
I admit that I rationalize ammo sometimes way too much for my own good, but I do hoard all ammo and spend it too. For 5.56 - usually via machinegun, since FNC ain’t provide enough firepower within single mag and M16 actually inferior stat-wise to FNC.
These four calibers do have “saving grace”:
.32 for PPK (Moller PP) - this pistol has very high accuracy on hipfire, even on the move. This makes it great for agile skirmisher to pump lead into components, without slowing down and using sights. And 5g per round for pistol is very lightweight.
.44 - Revolver is your pocket “hunting rifle” in secondary slot. When you get used to bullet’s curve and it’s rhytm, a powerful crit-shooter makes a great tool for skilled gunslingers.
.243 and .270 - slightly different, yet same in niche as machine’s component busters, since combo of high base damage and Soft-Point round’s multiplier on component damage makes extremely high damage-to-weight ratio and “poor man’s choice”, when low on other munitions. The downsides are you’ll never outgun your foes with hunting rifles and very unforgiving for mistakes when chips are down and fight broke out.
5.56? What redeeming feature for 5.56?

" Currently every Armour Piercing bullet in the game has a corresponding Experimental weapon EXCEPT for 5.56. The only ammo with two utilising Experimental Weapons is 7.62. "
Canonically this suggests military use against lightly armoured targets, and we therefore might assume candidacy for an experimental weapon in this universe.

Naturally more experimental weapons would be desirable as basically that’s new features, and a redeeming use for currently significantly underpowered weapons such as the hunting rifles but I didn’t really want to get into other-weapon analysis.

No thanks. Fine with how everything is rn

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80-90s was the time when military around Europe was just starting to shift from full size rifle cartridge (7.62x51 NATO) to intermediate (5.56x45). Sweden adopted FN FNC (Ak5 or AG5 in-game) in '85 which is relatively new gun for army and G3’s were way too good battle-proven rifles to ditch them right away. Same goes for Minimi (a.k.a. kvm89, or more famous as M249 SAW, in real-Sweden Ksp90), which is literally adopted in year of cataclysm (if sweddish military designation to be believed) - it is rare mostly due to being “just adopted” and the gun isn’t very well known.
I’d believe experimental FNC, but not Minimi. Also G3 is better candidate platform for “fantasy gun” for being simple and sturdy - roller-delayed blowback frees A LOT of volume around gun without hindering it’s action, unlike gas-operated FNC.