Ammunition restructuring & weapon balancing

Feedback/Feature Requests
1

Hello, I’m new here so go easy on me.

Firstly I’d like to state that I am fully aware this is nowhere near any kind of simulation but I think I have suggestion that is based more on real world details but at the same time could make choosing weapons little bit more varied. I’ll be using the real life weapon names here but I’m sure anyone knows which game weapons I’m talking about

In game weapons & ammo type

Glock - 9mm pistol
Kpist m/45 - 9mm SMG
MP5 - 9mm SMG
G3 - 7.62mm
AK-47 / AKM - 7.62mm
FN FNC - 5.56mm
FN Minimi - 5.56mm
FN MAG - 7.62mm

Compared to real life:

Glock - 9x19mm
Kpist m/45 - 9x19mm
MP5 - 9x19mm
G3 - 7.62x51mm NATO
AK-47 / AKM - 7.62x39mm
FN FNC - 5.56x45mm NATO
FN Minimi - 5.56x45mm NATO
FN MAG - 7.62x51mm

So in game we have a NATO battle rifle G3 and general purpose machinegun FN MAG consuming same 7.62mm ammo with AK-47 when in reality they use much more potent 7.62x51mm full powered rifle round compared to “intermediate” soviet 7.62x39mm. My other beef is that 9mm pistols and SMGs have separate ammo types when in reality they can shoot exactly same stuff.

I can understand not wanting to create confusion with two different 7.62mm ammo but it is already done with two different 9mm ammo types so I’d like to see a change with these

  1. Have only one type of 9mm ammo shared between pistols and SMGs, of course still have option between FMJ and AP

  2. Have two types of 7.62mm ammo, call them 7.62 NATO and 7.62 SOVIET or something like that. FN MAG and G3 would share ammunition in this case. Of course retain FMJ / AP variations on these also.

  3. As based on statistics in Wikipedia, 5.56x45 has muzzle energy around 1750 joules, 7.62x39mm around 2100 joules and 7.62x51mm around 3500 joules. Scale weapon damage and controllability roughly among these values.

I have long time ago ditched using G3 as it doesn’t feel that much more powerful per round compared to AK-47 or FNC, there’s not too much incentive to use it as it is harder to shoot with slower rate of fire.

I think this would create more obvious difference between two belt fed weapons too

For stronger armor it would be actually preferable to 7.62x51mm AP as it would be much more likely to work against armor. With 5.56 weapons it would be much more important to flank tanks to be able to do pretty much anything to them, this would ideally create little bit more variety to tactics, have three tiers of weapons, long range (.50BMG), intermediate fire support (7.62x51) and flanking (5.56x45 and 7.62x39)

Again I’m not asking for anything to be ultrarealistic, I just think these building blocks could be used for little bit more variety in weapon selection and tactics while these changes would actually follow little bit more closely real life.

2 Likes
2

The thing here with smg is that sweden used a more powerfull bullet for K-pist that was said to be the most powerfull at that time. It was to much power for the swedish pistols to handle.

The Glock can handle that bullet. But not earlier pistols. It’s an AP-bullet.

3

It was done deliberately.

Decision to separate pistol and SMG ammo was due to the reason of SMGs being a huge bullet eaters and if both, pistol and SMG, would use same ammo, you could easily spend all your 9mm with SMG and left with nothing for your pistol. Hence the ammo separation.

No hard feelings but that’s nitpicking on your part.

GZ isn’t simulator for it to have all the unique and different types of ammo, each and every weapon uses.
I already see the frustration from players where they pick up 7.62mm ammo and turns out that they can’t use it since it’s 7.62x51mm and not 7.62x39mm.

All the different ammo types reminds me DayZ, which is a simulator-survival game.

Weapon damage is scaled roughly in accordance of that, where:
AG5, N16 and KVM 89 have lesser amount of damage per bullet, compared to AI-76. And AG4 has higher damage per bullet that AI-76 has.

2 Likes
4

I was thinking there must be gameplay reason for this, thanks for clearing it up. After the first 5-10% of game pistols don’t matter that much anyway (melee is actually much funnier) so keeping that in mind this is slightly moot point.

I guess the fact AI-76 and AG4 do same amount of damage (I expect damage-bar to display damager per bullet, not damager per time) is the one that really annoys me since AG4 shoots slower and is harder to control.

There’s already few different type of pistol calipers and few different hunting rifles with different calipers even though they don’t seem to be that usable for the bulk of game. I would gladly see .32 go away or be combined to 9mm with few different pistols doing different levels of damage, also hunting calipers could be combined to compensate for splitting 7.62mm into two.

However this is nowhere near the hill I’m willing to die on and I am fully aware this is getting tad bit too nitpicky. End game weapons selection just tends to narrow down quite a bit and including few features that just happen to be from real world could possibly give little bit more variety. Giving AG4 worse full auto control and higher AP penetration / dmg could maybe do little bit something like that.

Oh well, back to the forests to find some robots.

5

I find great value in Klaucke and even in late-game. Especially the experimental version of it.
Melee weapons, in the other hand, are just “there” for those, who like it. (For me, melee weapons are completely useless.)
However, keep in mind that game released March '19 and melee weapons came in FINX Rising update (June '20 for PCs, August '20 for Xbox and November '20 for PS4), so, there have been a long time where only handgun has been your secondary weapon.

Devs might change the ammo allocation in the future but i don’t see much point for it. Especially since all players have gotten used to with it and only few new players find it an issue, until they too get used to it.

AG4, yes, has lower RoF but control wise, it is much better than AI-76. AI-76 has a lot of recoil and due to that, AI-76 is only for close-range combat. AG4, in the other hand, is effective in any range, even in long range.
All characters of mine have AG4 + 4-8x scope and i love using my AG4 as part sniper rifle and as part assault rifle.

Here is also a comparison between AG4 and AI-76: The special AI-76 looks ugly

The weapon stats bars got changed in the December '20 update and they don’t match with the current performance of the weapons. The stats bars got changed in advance of upcoming weapons recalibration.

Inventory weapon stats tweaked in the Inventory UI to better align to gameplay feel - weapons have not been rebalanced, we’ve just updated the stats that you see.

Patch notes: https://generationzero.com/en/blog/december-update-patch-notes

Rather than outright removing .32 ACP in favor of 9mm, i’d rather see new side weapon in-game, that has more effective use for the weak .32 ACP. E.g Škorpion vz 61, with semi- and fully-auto fire and e.g 50 rounds box mag.

And with hunting rifles, it wouldn’t make much sense for both firing the same rounds since one of them would have completely wrong ammo in use.