Feature request - improvements on hunters and runners

Feedback/Feature Requests
1
Introduction

There was a discussion about game difficulty. Is it too hard or too easy? Well, in general it depends on the selected difficulty, your playstyle, the ways you chose and much more.

One more important thing for the difficulty is the design of the enemies and their ai.

Spoken for the fnix faction there once was the idea, that they have different classes. The higher the class, the morre dangerous/difficult they are. If you take a closer look on each machine (techview of binoculars) you can see four different classes.

A for prototype machines
B for military machines
C for FNIX machines
D for apocalypse machines

This order could/should be understood like, the higher the letter, the more improved, dangerous, difficult the machines.

For long times that felt ok, but there have been some changes on the machines, their behaviours, their presences and their armament in 2022, which totally changed the above mentioned.

Current state

Let’s take a closer look on hunters and runners in this topic, because tanks already got some good improvements in 2022, while harvesters just seem to have gotten a big nerf.

But harvesters, at least in my eyes, aren’t primary offensive weapons. They harvest scrap metal. They can call in support units (since 2022 not just hunters), and they can defend themselves. That’s enough. They are support units, no assault units. (you can see that in base defenses… Just hunters, runners and tanks).

Hunters and runners, which are the primary basic forces of fnix, can change the whole feeling of the game, as you can find them almost everywhere, mostly in greater numbers, at least never alone.

Even small changes on them may have a great effect on how the game feels like.

The best example for that, which finaly lead to this article, is the post-landfall change of the apocalypse hunters flamethrower. They should be the highest class of hunters, strongest and most dangerous, but with the improvement of their flamethrower (yes, although the described effect was negative for the game feeling, the addaption of the lynx flamethrower to the apocalypse hunters was a technical and logical improvement.) they became very easy.

Of course, compared to prototype hunters they still are bullet sponges, but if you keep moving and shooting, they are no real danger. You can flee from the flames and dogde the multi grenade launchers. That’s more than you can do against the automatic rifles of military hunters.

The same goes for the (experimental) shotguns of fnix machines, their experimental pvg, their gas grenades or the fnix runners rockets.

They are just too slow.

Like I just said… The automatic rifles of military hunters and runners, even of prototype hunters and runners, not to forget apocalypse runners, are way more faster and therefore more accurate than any other weapon. The number of bullets that hit you with each salvo gets close to 100%, while every grenade can be dodged in most cases. The same goes for shotguns, rockets and their pvg.

Well, as the machines became more in many cases, of course it could happen that you get hit, while being shot from multiple directions.

But finally, it is what it is. The machines that are supposed to be stronger and more dangerous are easier to fight. You just have to be agile and persevering.

Suggested changes

What we need in my eyes are some tweeks at the setups of the machines.

  • More spread for automatic rifles,

  • slightly faster time from aiming to shooting with shotguns and rockets,

  • greater spread for tanks and harvesters missiles (greater radius, less forseeable),

  • more diversity in primary armament which goes along with some new weapon classes for the machines, that really feel and sound different:

PROTOTYPE
Fast, weak and cheap. Good for some patrols.

Runners:

  • .32 pistols (60%)
  • 9mm smg (40%)

Hunters:

  • 5.56mm automatic rifles (100%)

Additionally (shoulder): smoke grenades

MILITARY
Fast, stronger, more, more aggressive. Good for guarding and assaults outdoor and indoor.

Runners:

  • 12G Shotguns (40%)
  • 9mm pistols (50%)
  • Simple Rocketlaunchers (10%)

Hunters:

  • 5.56mm automatic rifles (50%)
  • 12G Shotguns (50%)

Additionally (shoulder): gas grenades (yellow), .270 hunting rifle, smoke grenades

FNIX
Faster, even stronger, even more aggressive. Good for guarding important locations/machines/structures. Good predators.

Runners:

  • 9mm pistols (25%)
  • 9mm smg (30%)
  • 12G Shotguns (25%)
  • Simple Rocketlaunchers (20%)

Hunters:

  • 7.62mm automatic rifles (75%)
  • 12G experimental Shotguns (25%)

Additionally (shoulder): gas grenades (purple), .50 experimental sniper rifle, smoke grenades, Simple Rocketlaunchers

APOCALYPSE
Faster, even more stronger, more aggressive, devastating. Good for hell on earth.

Runners:

  • 9mm smg (experimental nuclear ammo) (50%)
  • dual rocketlaunchers (experimental nuclear ammo) (50%)

Hunters:

  • .44 experimental handgun (10%)
  • 5.56mm experimental lmg (45%)
  • flamethrower (45%)

Additionally (shoulder): multi grenade launcher (toxic)

I really took much thoughts about this and of course I could try to explain this more detailed. What do you think about this idea in general?

Addition (including Poll)

Edit:
and more thing… I really would appreciate, if the fnix class units would get a new name.
Fnix is more than just a class. All machines are fnix. Fnix is everywhere.

Maybe it is based on a descition long time ago. Where there were no apocalypse machines. So the highest class of machines were fnix. But now, they are not the dominating class of machines, not even the most dangerous. Why should they still be called fnix?
As there is a new soviet faction since 2022, fnix in my eyes just is the name of the swedish ai. Its faction.

I would also love to see some suggestions for changing class C machines (fnix) name. Here are mine:
  • Predator class
  • SpecOps class
  • Professionals class
  • Darkness class
  • Superior class
  • Terminator class
  • Omega class
  • Epsilon class
  • Infiltrator class

0 voters

4 Likes
2

I like most of your ideas.
I just leave a few of my own.

  • Fnix Runners in patrols (2/3 units) should be able to call on reinforcements of extra runners as long as there are no machines nearby them and if the player is detected and in “combat status”.
    How this could be implemented i dont know, but it should be interested.

  • Runners rockets are too slow, should be faster once again, but retain the current missile trail/smoke.

  • And as you said:

PS: May i also suggest 3 other names to choose from (but no pressure).

  • Omega

  • Epsilon

  • Infiltrator

1 Like
3

Even if you did shoot that notion down a few days ago, I still miss the April 2020 difficulty. It was there when I started playing, and it hasn’t been the same since they “fixed” it.

When I got the game on a free-to-try weekend and started out on the coast, I nearly got killed by the first runner, and got killed half a dozen times before reaching the church. Some might say the game was broken or unforgiving, but it set the tone. There was an explanation why most of the houses were intact, but all people were gone. The machines were just too strong for an effective counterattack to take place in such a short time, and the locals were overrun.

Now, the machines are more balanced, but the threat/dread is gone. I had a really hard time getting past the first hunter back then, now it’s just another bot. Where I had to sneak around before, I can go in guns blazing. It’s not necessarily worse, but the difficulty was part of the charm back then.

2 Likes
4

Don’t they already do this?
I often had fights with a group of runners, where it seemed that one runner ran away.
Most times I sniped him, but if I wasn’t able to hit him (because of terrain), he came back with more runners some moments later.

5

Thx, I redid the poll. I thought I just could add these options, but that’s not possible.

1 Like
6

I dont think so, sometimes they just run when are damaged.
But i havent played much in the last 5 months so i cant be 100% sure

7

Almost the same for me.
Started a new world in hope of getting rid of the safehouse issue with that, but I’m still in archipelago region… Have been playing other games, or tried to get the new weapons in my old world…

So I’m really not sure about that. Well, about if that still is inside the game.
It once was usual:
Start attacking a patrol of runners, let’s say four of them.

  1. One of them will try to shoot you from distance (surpressing fire) ,
  2. Two will try to get closer for being able for melee attack
  3. The fourth will run away… And come back with more runners. (maybe other machines, too?)

But most I remember off from the last months is that I often used my pvg and shot all of them down from great distance, met them in greater battles with focus on other machines or they already were in battle with soviets or spawned in a base assault.

8

I voted for Omega, sounds like something an AI could pick.

One side-note - aren’t Hunters using .50 cal machine gun like tanks?

9

I don’t know which caliber the tanks machine guns use. It’s not described.

Nevertheless, what I suggested is a new setup for all runners and hunters which also would make sense for the loot they may drop.

10

Hmm it was mentioned in the forum I believe, it’s not part of the wiki, but by judging the size of the machine guns (both hunters and tanks) it looks more like .50cal than 7.62mm.

11

Hunters use a single 12,7mm machinegun, Tanks use a dual setup of the same weapon.

2 Likes
12

But still, the ammo they drop are 7.62 or 5.56 - they only drop .50 Cal (or .270) if they have a shoulder mounted Railgun. :grimacing: Tanks on the other hand can always drop .50 Cal in addition to 7.62.

13

I think runners/hunters should drop only the ammo type that they use. Feels stupid that they are outfited with ammo for guns they don’t carry. Like a soldier going to battle wasting space and to carry extra weight for something he doesn’t have any use for.

Now many probably say that in a team soldiers carry grenades and extra mag for a grenade launcher/lmg. But in this case I don’t think that’s the same A runner has no arms to reload another machine. Hunters maybe could do that. But they are killing machines so no. They dont run around with ammo for weapons they dont carry.

So this is something I would like to see a change in.

2 Likes
14

Yeah, that’s more a gameplay balance thing I think.

Though I suppose one could argue that technically 12,7mm and .50 BMG are different rounds.

@Terrorrobot I agree there, they should be carrying 7,62 machineguns instead, it’d be more consistent.

1 Like
15

Yes, that’s not the topic.
I don’t want to discuss what they currently have or don’t have and what they drop or don’t drop, but to what it should/could be changed for more diversity and for bringing their classes back into order. (you know, a, b, c, d…)

1 Like
16

Yes, you’re right.

Hunters need to be more terrifying, IMO. They need to work together as a pack, be more mobile and keep the player(s) on edge at all times. Different classes can behave in different ways, and depending on what weaponry they have they can work together to bring down the player in interesting ways.

Same goes with Runners, that often also work and patrol in packs.

1 Like
17

Yes. And they already do this in limited ways.
The ones which are able to use long distance weapons surpress you with gas or sniper rifle, others go for close to medium range for their primary weapons and again others use their melee attack.

But as stated above, the classes are too limited in their abilities and especially the upper classes are often easy to dodge.

18

I have something to add: make the hunters prioritize melee a little less, in favor of this new weaponry.

A: it’d make it more noticeable
B: they basically just pounce spam for me rn
C: the melee would be intended to deter melee attacks by way of that 50-damage threat if players get too close.

Also, some concepts:
Runners with tracerless grenades (Flashbang on proto, frag on military, gas on FNIX (or replacement name), and incendiary for apoc

runners and hunters trying to dodge rockets, moving out of the line of fire of their allies, etc.

And NATO machines.

NATO and the Soviets work together to try and help get rid of FNIX, so why would NATO not also try to help clear out machines?

19

Thx for the reply.

That’s not part of this topic. It’s about improving the hunters and runners and correcting their classes and danger.
But of course you may start a new topic about your NATO ideas.

20

sorry, my brain went into suggestion mode lol