Game difficulty

Feedback/Feature Requests
1

I miss the old difficulty of early generation zero.
And I would love to bring back that cold calculating machine.

  • Apocalypse hunter Flamethrower definitely
    nerfed and easily dodgable.
  • Runner rockets no longer fly with speeding death
  • Armor easily destroyed (could be buffed)
  • FNIX hunters miss their target almost 100% of the time, unless sniping

I don’t know what else was nerfed or buffed but I would like a difficulty setting for Veterans!

I know harvesters were nerfed and I don’t mind them staying that way.:joy: although they could have more weapon loadouts

2

I’m not sure I really understand what you mean. Both Tanks and Harvesters were severely underwhelming “back in the day” - since Harvesters didn’t call in Hunters, and Tanks didn’t have the sprint attack. So both Tanks and Harvesters have been buffed considerably since the early game. Also, Hunters have been buffed so that many more of them have a shoulder mounted railgun or grenade launcher.

If you’re referring to that very short period of time where the machines got a surreal buff in accuracy, speed and damage, then that doesn’t count. This was a huge mistake that was quickly reversed back to something more playable - and it’s not gonna happen again.

So I really don’t agree with you. Also, what is your evidence of the statements you post? Why do you think accuracy and armor penetration was nerfed, is this confirmed or is it just something you guess has happened? Have you considered that you just got better at the game?

If you want a challenge, please tell me how you’re doing top-tier base assault on Guerilla difficulty with no experimental weapons. Please post a video so we can see your insane skills. :sunglasses:

NB: I’ve been playing the game for over 1000 hours, and I actually think I’m decent at it. And I still think soloing top-tier base assaults are a challenge - each time! :grimacing:

1 Like
3

for some reason they nerfed fnix hunters and theyre weaker than military ones. like why? its like fnix losing and the military rising.

tanks were also nerfed if you didnt realize the multiple missle launcher is now more accuarate so it means easier to dodge. they didnt fully remove it because reaper still has the spread missle launcher.

rocket runners are so bad! its like im fighting an tick that never rans out of fuel!

hunters grenade launchers were nerfed for shorter duration of gas.
and base assaults are easy. mostly because if you play rust you can already see weakness for enemy bases and any big explosives can = every robot dies behind the wall or other activities.

4

I agree that fighting the machines changed…
But I don’t think everything got nerfed.

Missile launchers are more accurate. Less spread, easier to dodge.

Hunter-PVG is still as accurate, and they became much more.

Shotguns are very accurate, but targeting is very slow: easy to dodge in most cases.

Automatic rifles are too accurate in my eyes. It seems that they don’t miss. I would love to see more spread and ricochet.

That’s why military machines seem to be more dangerous than fnix machines. Almost all military hunters and runners use automatic rifles for all ranges and don’t seem to miss even moving targets.
Almost all fnix hunters and runners use shotguns which are easy to dodge and need closer ranges. Rockets from fnix runners are as slow, too. But they got more.

Apocalypse hunters grenades are still dangerous as usual. It seems they use them for every range now. In the past it seemed that they used them just for medium to long range.

Their flamethrowers adapted the lynx-flamethrower-system, introduced with landfall update. I love these flamethrowers, because the flames are way more realistic when firing on moving targets. Well, they aren’t as accurate any more, but that’s ok in my eyes. I always hated them because you were not able to escape the flames, which was unrealistic. It’s better now, but not comparable to their danger before. In total the apocalypse hunters are now easy to dodge.

Harvesters and tanks don’t use gas as often as before, but the tanks have a greater variety on weapons and their new ability to shoot while running. That’s great.
Harvesters have greater varieties in which machines they call in. Differently armed runners, hunters or both. That’s great, too.

In total, harvesters became less dangerous, but I see them more as support unit and that’s ok. I sometimes even have the feeling, that they became much weaker, too, because sometimes just a few shots of my pgv are enough to blow a whole group of them off.
Tanks instead became more dangerous, because more agile and flexible.

I don’t agree with less machines. In opposite, I think the groups of machines became more and more divers. Mixed groups of many types of machines are now roaming around.

As there are more and more different machines, I think it’s ok if their armor doesn’t eat bullets the same way. It’s a design change to more action on our displays. More movement, more explosions and other effects… More action.

That’s ok in most cases, but I also loved sneaking around, hearing for single machines that could be dangerous to me and taking them out one by one, silently, ambush-like… Now this gameplay style isn’t as possible any more. It doesn’t take long and more and more machines join the fight. And they don’t just are alerted and search for you, they immediatly start attacking. Hiding and sneaking around them is hardly possible. That’s sad.

That’s my impressions.

1 Like
5

GZ’s biggest nerf by far, is the FNIX class Hunters. In the early days they were super accurate, and if they caught you in the open they would pulverize you in a second with their explosive flechettes. Nowadays, if you just keep sidestepping they’re almost completely unable to hit you.

2 Likes
6

I don’t think it’s just the accuracy, but the time to aim and shoot.

3 Likes
7

I always appreciate your comments.

8

They were I think, And now they are equivalent of prototype almost, I think thier timing could be tweeked or tracking

9

Haha, yes that’s actually when I started playing, and I enjoyed it very much

10

I have 4 characters, but only one that hoards experimental weapons which I use for rival farming.

Guerrilla is really the only difficulty I play and base assaults are indeed difficult on Guerrilla with no experimental weapons, but base assaults are not the topic (tho I think they could have more variety in dangers).

I think the idea that you have to “self nurf” is sad but actually I do this as well.

I think some of the other comments on this post are what I’m trying to get at here.

11

Tanks are indeed more dangerous in the different armorments and the fact that they full blown sprint at you :joy: which is quite fun.

Just wish armor was more durable is all

12

Yes I suppose, but the fact it no longer blocks visibility is kinda disappointing. The Apocalypse hunter isn’t as scary anymore which is sad in my opinion

13

Yeah I don’t get this either, military way more effective

14

Like i just said… The automatic rifles of military hunters and runners, even of prototype hunters and runners, not to forget apocalypse runners, are way more faster and therefore more accurate than any other weapon. The number of bullets that hit you with each salvo gets close to 100%, while every grenade can be dodged in most cases. The same goes for shotguns, rockets and their pvg.

Well, as the machines got more in many cases, of course it could happen that you get hit, while being shot from multiple directions.

But finally, it is what it is. The machines that are supposed to be stronger and more dangerous are easier to fight. You just have to be agile and persevering.

What we need in my eyes are some tweeks at the setups of the machines.

  • More spread for automatic rifles,

  • slightly faster time from aiming to shooting with shotguns and rockets,

  • greater spread for tanks and harvesters missiles (greater radius, less forseeable),

  • more diversity in primary armament which goes along with some new weapon classes for the machines, that really feel and sound different:

PROTOTYPE
Fast, weak and cheap. Good for some patrols.

Runners:

  • .32 pistols (60%)
  • 9mm smg (40%)

Hunters:

  • 5.56mm automatic rifles (100%)

Additionally (shoulder): smoke grenades

MILITARY
Fast, stronger, more, more aggressive. Good for guarding and assaults outdoor and indoor.

Runners:

  • 12G Shotguns (40%)
  • 9mm pistols (50%)
  • Simple Rocketlaunchers (10%)

Hunters:

  • 5.56mm automatic rifles (50%)
  • 12G Shotguns (50%)

Additionally (shoulder): gas grenades (yellow), .270 hunting rifle, smoke grenades

FNIX
Faster, even stronger, even more aggressive. Good for guarding important locations/machines/structures. Good predators.

Runners:

  • 9mm pistols (25%)
  • 9mm smg (30%)
  • 12G Shotguns (25%)
  • Simple Rocketlaunchers (20%)

Hunters:

  • 7.62mm automatic rifles (75%)
  • 12G experimental Shotguns (25%)

Additionally (shoulder): gas grenades (purple), .50 experimental sniper rifle, smoke grenades, Simple Rocketlaunchers

APOCALYPSE
Faster, even more stronger, more aggressive, devastating. Good for hell on earth.

Runners:

  • 9mm smg (experimental nuclear ammo) (50%)
  • dual rocketlaunchers (experimental nuclear ammo) (50%)

Hunters:

  • .44 experimental handgun (10%)
  • 5.56mm experimental lmg (45%)
  • flamethrower (45%)

Additionally (shoulder): multi grenade launcher (toxic)

I really took much thoughts about this and of course I could try to explain this more detailed. What do you think about this idea in general? Should I make a new topic about that?

3 Likes
15

The reason why Fnix Hunters are weaker then Military/Prototype Hunters is it’s weapon.
The Fnix Hunter uses a Dart launcher (Similar to the Experimental Pump gun, but Better range)
(they also Never a shoulder mounted Gas grenade launcher)

The Dart launcher, is so easy to dodge, it have a unique sound a sec before it fires (giving you plenty of time to move)
when you hear this sound the hunter’s aim locked till it shoots, it does not readjust it’s aim before firing (Similar to Snipers, red light)
But with enough stagger-force you can cause it to not shoot or miss the shot

The Prototype and Military Hunters use machine guns
which have no windup sound before they shoot, till the fire shot is fired
which make their shots harder to dodge (at least the first bullet)
too close or too slow and you can’t side step the bullets when shot at
as they turn while firing, multiple shots.

Side note:
If a Tank (Missile Pod, Missile Launcher), Harvester or Lynx (Grenade launcher) Have not gotten a proper lock on you or lost you from sight
They will fire a scattered woolly of inaccurate grenades or missiles instead of at you.
in which case it can at times be safer to stand still (as you can end up dodging into it instead <.<)
or dance around the incoming wide rain of missiles for the fun of it XD

I don’t think Guerilla should increase the damage of machines weapon from Skirmish level.
else Vanguard might be mandatory.

However there are other ways to increase the Threat of machines:

  • Increasing how fast/easy they detect you.

  • decrease the delay between their attacks.

  • Their behavior, like giving Seekers the ability to call in Reinforcements,
    or that seekers doesn’t roam alone but with a pack of Runners or Hunters.

  • Where is the Apoc Seeker that call in Reinforcements normally (and sound like an undead parrot) ;p

1 Like
16

You should totally make a topic, haha, you certainly got this way more thought out and organized than I.
I try to get my thoughts and ideas out but this is better in my opinion.

Go for it my guy and I’ll try and support!

17

This needs a revamp, yes. But they already detect you too fast and easy in many cases. Especially if they already are in a fight with other machines.

Just partially agree.

In my eyes that’s something they already do.

Yes, that’s something there once was a topic about. I had some ideas how they could work…

1 Like
18

@Madchaser What’s your thoughts on status effects, like should there be more consequences or visual impact (when on fire it doesn’t just redden your screen but hinders visibility)?

Smoke effects stamina recharge.

Gas changes screen color or causes tunnel vision.

Explosions gets dirt on your screen or collecting mud through bullet splatter.

Radiation causes dizzying or stamina drain (it’s not much of an danger and it should be)

Getting stabbed causes a bleed effect, avoiding melee is safer then the risk. (Adds danger and thoughtful combat) ticks would become more dangerous in a fire fight.

Much of this could be added, because it would open apparel crafting or the skill tree up. New skills and important outfits for certain play styles.

19

you dont really understand how weak is fnix hunter it looks so stupid that fnix hunters are weak with the main weapon btw. shotgun pellets are too bad that you need to move few step and you dodged the hunter fnix shot.

this game is similar from doom eternal survivals gameplay from my eyes. if you stop moving you die quick. so they program the enemies to calculate theyre shoots were it could hit the player.

generation zero doesnt have that. Just a reminder hunters blade attacks are easy to dodge because they make sound and if you see running towards you it means blade attack. and most of the time you will encounter fnix hunters have only the shotgun and the blade.

i know i know the militarys hunters have bullets. but why fnix forced to use weaker weapons/shotguns? and the shotguns are bigger hitbox so theres no point of saying that shotguns are strong! theyre absolute weak. so please trust me.

The last thing the fnix hunter were also not aloud to use grenade launchers. it means new players can also kill fnix hunters because you can hide inside building for cover or any other cover. and its true that fnix hunters are easier. it was more harder for me to kill military hunters. no fnix hunters theyre to easy.
sniper doesnt always go through walls.

i had to explain one robot because you can see i explained alot from just a single robot. its too much for me to write for other robots. like why some of the people not understand what im saying?

answering @Madchaser , @Zilem ,

20

Who are you writing/answering to?
I guess we all understood how easy fnix machines are compared to the military ones.

They have been there before apocalypse machines were introduced and before experimental weapons came into the game (correct me if I’m wrong, I didn’t play the game in this early times).

They once were the strongest machines with the most deadly weapons.

But like I said above, by all the changes at the game, the machines classes have to be rebalanced to give their classes any further sense.

1 Like