Heavy weapons,AT mines rebalance

General Discussion
#1

Hello All!
I am playing in GZ since BETA time as solo player and co-op member too and really enjoy this game for atmosphere and freedom of choice.So,when we’re playing as a team,every member have his own role (medic,sniper,support,AT specialist…) and trying to survive as could be in reality (making traps,ambushes,using sudden attack and rapid escape).The problem is that heavy weapons and explosive (mines,propan tanks)have very little damage and are useless agains robots (“Hunter” class and higher), the usual ammunition consumption is 10 shells from 5* granatgevar M-49 for one FNIX class tank,at least 2 AT mines for FNIX Hunter!!!All this looks really unrealistic and ruins our feelings from the game…I am not seeing any difference between 6* PVG90(20 AP rounds per FNIX target)and 6* M49(5 shots-10 rockets),a recoilless cannon specially made for heavy armored targets permanent destruction!!!So here is my ideas how to fix this problem:

  1. Rebalance heavy weapons damage so that it would be possible to destroy the target (robots till FNIX Hunter class)with one shot.FNIX and APOCALYPSE class machines 2,max 3 shots from 6* M-49.
  2. Increase AT mines damage (1 mine per target (all robots including Hunter class) for permanent destruction or at least make’em slower with 90% damaged health)
  3. Make AT mines and HE rockets harder to be found or drop from robots (only AT seekers,Military (and higher)class hunters,Military (and higher) Harvesters and Tanks.

I hope all this will make a game more interesting and allow us to meet difficulties with effective weaponry.

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#2

I guess you mean tanks here?

I am afraid that this will bring up the whole realism discussion again. Game balancing is not about realism. The main problem with those high damage rates is how many of those items you can carry and how quickly you can deploy them (mines, e.g.).

Personally, I would be fine with higher damage for explosives. But then easily carrying 12 AT mines? For killing 12 tanks? That would break the game completely. I would vote for being able to carry only 1-2 mines per person, or establishing a weight limit in addition to the existing space limit. Similarly with the HEDP rounds. You can easily carry 40 rounds.

I remember someone making trolly jokes recently.

#3

Yes,I mean Tanks and Harvesters.Anyway it will be 4-6 rockets.Other ways,looks like those huge robots more powerful than modern tanks;))I am not talking about full realism,but looks really strange that 50 cal. have same damage as HEDP antitank rocket.About mines I mean all robots classes except Tanks and Harvesters.For them 3-4 AT mines.You remember after game release every player could destroy any robot with single propan tank?I agree with you about carrying capacity but when you play solo in your backpack extra weapons,munitions,medkits and all other stuff.Mbe reduced chance for drop and spawn mines and rockets is a good way;))

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#4

I agree that the heavy weapons in this game aren’t heavy weapons. I mean really, a 50BMG is what a 700 or 800 grain bullet traveling at 2800 to 2900 fps but in game it does as much or slightly more than a 270 Winchester?

For reference a 270 Winchester standard loading is something like a 130 to 140 grain bullet traveling at nearly 3000 fps. That’s not taking into account bullet design and armour penetration. Hint, 270 bullets are designed for light skinned animals like deer, not hardened armour plate.

The CG84 acts more like a 40mm HE grenade, and the Barret rifle behaves more like a semi auto hunting rifle in 30-06 like a BAR. It’s kind of silly.

If they wanted to include a CG84 or an M82 then they should have made them proper heavy weapons that do massive damage. They could have balanced the M82 by making the Barret nearly impossible to shoot unless prone and making the rifle and it’s ammo appropriately heavy compared to the other rifles in the game. The CG84 could have been treated the same.

The heavy weapons should be used to soften up the target with a few shots, but then you’re out of ammo and you have to finish the heavies off with small arms, or scoot to a location where you pre-stashed munitions.

Either that or the weapons should be reskinned into weapons that are more appropriate for their power level. The game stats for the M82 would be good for a standard Designated Marksman rifle like an SVD or an M1A dressed up with an optic. The new grenade launcher they’re promoting already exists in game, it’s the CG84.

#5

I agree that weapons in-game feel more-or-less similar according to their damage output and it doesn’t matter much, which weapons you use against machines.

If we were to compare in-game weapons to real life, then yes, .50 cal would make short work of anything it faces and KVMs would tear through machines.

However, lets also consider that GZ isn’t a simulation of real life. Instead, GZ takes place in alternative universe with different physics laws.
For example: machines can walk in heavy rain without issues and can be soaking wet. But if they even tip their toe into lake/river/sea, they will instantly blow up.

In the early days, land mines and red gas tanks were powerful. Even so powerful that it took only one item, to blow up any machine, including military tank and FNIX harv. Only FNIX tank was powerful enough to take 2 hits from land mine/red gas tank but after that, it also fell.
That made taking out machines VERY easy, especially since red gas tanks are in abundance in game world.
I opted to use land mines, since i was able to stack 2 in one slot (red gas tanks weren’t able to be stacked) and all i needed to do, was run up to the machine (harv or tank), place the land mine, run away and wait until machine stepped on it, which it did, and after that: BOOM and no machine anymore. Only downside was that land mines were hard to find.
But eventually, devs also balanced them out and now, they do little damage to bigger machines, while still effective against runners and hunters.

#6

I’d like to comment that CarlG is indeed very weak to be/feel like actual anti-armor weapon. Something like slightly buffed grenade launcher. Buuuuut I’ve yet to fully test it with explosive-related skills to say for sure. Still, flimsy-looking hunter that can soak 2-5 direct hits (depending on who you ask) is the problem IMO.
I mean it’s ammunition meant to mangle thick and heavy armor plates and here we get 'em 30-50 mm (APC-grade) thick at best, which are bendable even by HEDP/HEFRAG rounds.
I’ll stand on opinion that single shot need buff, even if made it’s rounds heavier and scarser that it is now.

Edit: then again - there’s difficulty factor. Guerilla meant to be for prepared players to fight in the open, but explosive armament isn’t worth to be bothered with at Guerilla, simply due to difficulty “sponginess” of machines and explosive being outright bottom-feeder in weight-to-damage ratio. Ordinary grenades do better DPS than recoiless.

#7

There is really no aspect to the game’s weapons that you should bother comparing to reality.
Damage will never be realistic.
Damage difference between weapons will never be realistic.
Time to deploy and operate weapons will never be realistic.
And most of all, the weight of weapons and and ammo will always be absurdly wrong!

If GZ was a simulation, the max carrying capacity would be 50-60 kg, but then you could barely walk short distances and certainly not operate weapons. Already at 15 kg your stamina would begin to reduce. At 20 kg your walk and running speed would be reduced. At 30 kg you would already begin to hate your life. Yet this is a normal weight for a soldier to carry in certain situations… Now imagine if he suddenly flipped up a 130 cm long, 18 kg machinegun from his pocket, jumped onto the roof of a car and shot it at full-auto from a standing position while aiming down the sights!

What was I saying? Oh yeah, never mind realism. :wink:

#8

I am saying that explosives are getting forgotten to oblivion. Most people in pubs running around with railgun and shock-MG and overpowering anything that moves even before they rach player. Setting up and using explosive weapons (grenades, HEDP) and traps (cannisters, mines) not only not rewarding, but outright bother, since weight used for traps equals dozens of mags of good ammo and medkits. Once fun and stealth-encouraging alternative to upfront battles (according to Aesyle) now is rarely see in pubs.
It just I am sort of player that wants to explore/use most of game offering than sticking to meta stuff.

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