Mainland and army

Our army in the 80s was very big and strong, and when you see the distance from östertörn to sweden you see that we could just use artillery to fire on östertörn and then go in there and secure the island

Maybe because the entire army was wiped out the stab don’t want to risk it

yeah personally i hope its only österön, and that the swedish army survives. maybe the last content update will be you steam rolling the island with USA sweden and sovjet :rofl: just a joke.

The mainland is probably not overrun. The only confirmation of machines on the mainland is 1-2q shipments of crates to mainland ports out of Musskudden. That is not a huge amount of machines. It is almost certain they would be destroyed. And the mainland military was most likely more prepared than the Ostertorn stationed ones.

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i agree, what whould win? a base full of soliders or a container with runners

What is known, are actually 3 shipments and unknown amount of containers per shipment. Though, i estimate 4 containers per shipment.

Another thing to think about is, if the machines in those containers were activated or not. If the containers were placed into storage (like seen all over Östertörn), machines in them could very well be inactive.

Same discussion took place in here: Why not nuke Ostertorn?/ Is this Just a Political Battle?

A container of course, unless they were not active.
It was a massive surprise attack.

It´s good to defend our homeland and having a healthy but strong nationalistic vibe, but not a single Earth military army can withstand the machines onslaught by surprise.
So yes a container full of prototype runners can kill an entire base during the night.
Don´t forget that unlike the “player” a shot by the accurate machines will mean death 85% of the time for anyone else.

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@Aesyle Yes, I actually pointed out the same thing in that thread. The activation thing I think I did as well. We can see many times throughout the story/world inactive machines. Most notably the mission Beach Head. We can also assume they already had some stored machines on the mainland. AS keeping all of them on the island would be a bad decision for logistics.

The machines seem to be in a later stage of development. Seen as we have the military class. So we can assume they already had a decent amount on the mainland as well.

Don´t forget that unlike the “player” a shot by the accurate machines will mean death 85% of the time for anyone else.

I would say it depends. Prototypes shoot .32 ACP. Which is a smaller round. While most bullets can still be very deadly if hit, it really depends on where. As a .32 to muscle tissue might put you out of commission for the fight. Or depending on adrenaline, will stop you for a second. While a good shot into the lungs, heart, large blood vessels could immediately kill someone . Of course the machines will have the element surprise. Which as we have seen so far was a huge help in the Ostertorn attack.

I am not that well versed in Swedish military gear. So not sure if the Swedes had more modern armor, or just simple flak vests. As most body armor meant to be shot should be able to handle a .32, especially those used by the military.

I said that in a realistic way, the runners and hunters aren´t that accurate on the game.
But if it was in real life they would be or else they would not even exist.
So yes prototype runners can kill everyone on a military base if the personnel is relaxing, doing normal patrols and ignorant to the invasion.
Body Armor was not used as much as it is nowadays, and even today it´s not enough to withstand lots of bullets or certain calibers.
The only question is, how many soldiers can a machine kill before it runs out of bullets?
We have no way to know how many they could carry, just that runners would have less ammo than hunters, but enough to kill more than 20/30 people if they were near each other.

edit: just one thing, the size of the military base will make a difference in terms of how many of the personnel have been killed, so 1 container with active machines in a large base (not seen ingame) might not be enough to kill everybody.

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We could estimate the capacity. But I see only the box mag attached to the runner’s weapon. Of course in-game they have infinite ammo. But realistically would be limited by available and convenient space/weight.

The machines would also have to hit most of the main bases on the mainland to be effective. This is assuming that they have no large machine storage with which to do it. Which I would say is possible. But I think the Swedish military would have moved a lot of the machines to mainland. I assume that is what they were doing in Muskudden. It all depends on how much time they had to move machines over. Ostertorn may have only worked out good because it was such a small place to overrun. And they had a large number of machines per square km.

But if FNIX could only hit some Swedish bases with the available force, then the command would take on, and start prepping. We also know they were super paranoid of a Soviet invasion. So bases near the borders and coasts would be on a higher alert than peace time usually. But maybe they were toning it down since the USSR was so close to collapsing at that point.

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Maybe 90 bullets per runner?
If a hunter or unknown machine had appendages or something similar to arms they could reload the runners, but we see no evidence of that through the game documents and logs.

Well my response was backed by the supposed machine deliveries made to the mainland.
They could do a lot of damage if no one was expecting that the shipped hunters and runners were active.
But the Tanks and Harvesters were shipped by parts, like legos to be put together later, so if some Swedish forces could manage to get into fighters and armored vehicles they could destroy many of the active hunters and runners.

We only know the invasion was a success inside the islands (osterton), outside it´s unknown.

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Yep. We have those 3 confirmed shipments. Which does support the idea of a mainland invasion. I agree that if unnoticed, the surprise attack could slow Swedish response. If they destroy airfields, vehicle storage, and fuel tanks. They would have to hold off the military until the heavy equipment is out and put together. Assuming it is not. But I would bet they had tanks and harvesters already stored in bunkers on the mainland. Though they could store them in pieces for space. And have a small QRF of machines.

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If the Swedish forces had at least dozens of Harvesters and Tanks in multiple bases, then…most of Sweden is already lost .
People tend to forget that it takes time to prepare for a war.
When dealing with self aware A.I and organic or nano machines hive minds" Grey goo scenarios" not even a very powerful nation can be fast enough to deal with that threat.
It takes time for the soldiers to be called, for the ammo and fuel to be delivered, only some units are ready to fight at the moment.
All military personnel near an “Infested” zone would have to flee or they would be neutralized at the moment the creatures or machines appear.

So, basically taking in consideration that each Harvester and Tank (with finite ammo) can destroy many vehicles, all Military Bases with these and other machines would already be lost after activation, leaving many zones occupied and giving heavy resistance to remaining human forces.

On the other hand, without the bigger machines, only the bases with the runners and hunters would be lost, the rest of the military forces could in due time destroy them all and clean the mainland…and that is if Fnix does not have a factory producing machines outside of Osterton.

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Yep. This is one advantage FNIX took. Ostertorn could not prep defenses in time. Leading to a desperate defense at the archipelago entrance. Logistics is one of the biggest things in war. And at the start of GZ, FNIX had the upperhand on that one. With a very prepared and coordinated attack.

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Indeed, the only other thing not mentioned, is if NATO had already a task force on the mainland they could help.
But I don´t see the Soviets going there, they would only stay on the border making sure nothing passes through.

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It doesn’t matter how many bullets runner has since all runners have melee attack as well. Latter is enough to kill a person, especially when considering runner’s weight and how agile it is during it’s melee attack.

Hunters are even worse, with their pneumatic blade, jump and slash attacks. Regular cars wouldn’t have a chance against hunter since hunter would be cutting cars open like tin cans. And if hunters have powerful thrusting force with their blade (in-game, we see that hunters are able to move their blade in and out), it could be enough to “stab” armored vehicles into the right spot to disable them.

yeah thats true, i just mean that if the machines didnt have like support for the robots then it is hard for them to get a fotthold, runners cant build FNIX buildings and they whould have a limited amount of robots in Sweden, and then it is easier to take them down. And i think the game said one of the shipments where brouht to Musköbasen or karlskrona and they are Swedens biggest naval bases, even today

And one thing sweden has is a big airforce, and i know they can shoot down aircrafts but for know FNIX dosnt have a fighter jet so sweden could controll the skies

Someone tried to count the number of aircraft in the game, there are at least 40, maybe more, what we know is that most of the pilots didn´t even had time to get to the plane, they were exterminated.
And any fighters on the air were destroyed.
So you have to stop thinking of it as a outside invasion by humans.
If that was the case Sweden could defend itself at least for a while.

An AI can outsmart any human Nation, the lack of morals, stress, need for sleep and the speed of the attack is very difficult to withstand, specially if it´s from the inside.

where brouht to Musköbasen or karlskrona and they are Swedens biggest naval bases

This means those bases are now lost, if by any chance other shipments were sent to the biggest army and air force bases they could be lost to FNIX too.

And about construction, FNIX is a learning AI, there is reason to believe other machines exist that serve as builders and anti aircraft platforms.
So things don´t look good, it all depends if the machines shipped for the mainland were activated or not, that makes the difference between half of the country occupied or not.

well i am not thinking of it as an invasion from the outside, i have played the game since launch so i know the story, but i mean the mainland sweden maybe isnt invaded so we could fire artillery, airstrikes, missle strikes and other stuff at östertörn and i have bad english bc i am swedish. but i agree about that the machines are better at fighting, actually i agree with all you say it is just that i think we missunderstod each other. And yeah maybe there is some hunter with a radar so it can be like a lufvärnsrobot (Anti air robot)