Playerbase Patch Compensation - Restore Trust

General Discussion
17

@Aesyle The ability to go prone and a very simple modified version of the Harverster( APOC class) should not be considered DLC, the Harvester should already be available with The Alpine Unrest DLC.

@Gunny47 But she has a point with the rest, we gradually have free stuff, new weapons and upgrades to the environment and to the crafting system , and also apparel (which is useless but in most games you have to pay hard cash for useless clothes and costumes).

  • The DLC story is optional, and it´s cheap 7.99, if you check for most games DLC, it´s usually from 14.99 to 25 Euros/Dollars. And some of them are quite empty and dull…

  • I don´t know when you did get the game, but the game improved month after month, adding new stuff.

  • They did mess up big time after April 2020, and I agree they should compensate players, they must give people new reasons to trust them, they announced the new update that will “supposedly” fix the game, and many people including myself are a bit afraid that it´s just going to bring more crashes, specially to the PS4 which did not receive any prior update to serve as “Test” (as Xbox version did), people not trusting them is no good at all.

  • Giving free DLC is…bad for business, if they did that we can´t expect they will have the financial support to keep adding DLC for the game.
    Having said that, I do understand your opinion.
    Even if not giving free DLC, they could look around and take notes from No man´s sky Team, one that managed to go from Failure to Success.
    I think they could make some sort of compromise, so that this never happens again, it´s better to wait 3 months for the next big update than having it available on December 2020 and crashing everyone´s game.

1 Like
18

Please read Gunny and Mr_A’s replies and mine again.

The point is that I am not specifically asking for any schtuff in particular.

The point is that the developers should start to act on restoring broken trust.
The word must go out that these guys are actually working hard to actually fix their game and not break it with every next update.

Do not hammer me about your failure to understand this please.

Putting new stuff in a new paid DLC is not the way it should be done, no matter how cheap it is priced.
Especially if it contains things that should have been (or be) in the base game (from the start).

However; in contrast to what Mr_A says: Giving out free DLC is actually good for business - see the Hello Games - No Man’s Sky amount of success.

The short of it:

Trust has been broken for a long time now and it took the biggest hit in April 2020.
That must be restored some way, somehow.
And if I was one of the devs or someone in charge, I would be engaging with th community like crazy right now.

  • Show actual presence on the forums (do they do that? No!)

  • Use any other multimedia channels not to promote the current 'oh hey look at our insert random machine/weapon here -picture. Instead to communicate to people and actually respond to criticasters. Angry feedback is not to be ignored - it is often the most valuable form of feedback.

  • Hand out any free schtuff you can, whenever you can.

  • Regular actual hotfixes - weekly or bi-weekly.

  • Have people actually TEST things and listen to their feedback.

  • Reserve bigger content updates until complete and fully tested.

  • Get down on all fours and take it from all sides while saying sorry.

  • Engage with the community and playerbase as a whole.
    That is what needs to be done right now.

All because one cannot simply rely on a broken minimum viable product, talk proudly about it, ignore haters and keep holding up hands for cash and expect people to actually fork over said cash.
That only works for blind fanboys, which are the absolute minority of players in the playerbase. Unless that is all the players you have left and all others have run away.

1 Like
19

All I’m seeing here is a whole bunch of “should’s” and “want’s”. In addition, a whole lot of ignorance and disrespect towards the developers, which is the exact opposite towards what the discussion is about. The last reply in particular, which I’ll use as an example to set the record straight and summarize.

That’s exactly what you’re saying though, why are you contradicting yourself? You shut down opinions not of your own, and demand change according to your own logic. That’s not how a discussion forum works.

They act on this by repairing damage, aka fixing the game as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
How is this not good enough?

There has been nothing but news that work is underway to fix the most prevalent issues, haven’t you seen the dev letters? Releasing free DLC to stem the tide wouldn’t solve any of this.

The more you insult others, especially moderators, the less credibility you have.

Again, more demands. Pointless.

You bring up one of the worst examples without a food for thought as to why.
I’ll never buy from Hello Games. Why? Because they outright lied to their fanbase before release, just to make more money.

No amount of free DLC is going to somehow undo the fact that Hello Games stooped lower than EA have done in the past in favor for cashing in. But many players chose to ignore that, because they got free DLC. In the real world, that’s called a bribe.

Don’t assume you’re speaking for everyone, that’s rude and not welcome behaviour on the forums.

There is almost daily developer activity on the forums, helping users with issues they are having and talking about various feature requests and feedback. And yet they’re a small team, but they still come here every week. What more do you want?

Just as the above reply there’s activity on other media platforms.

Angry feedback is not to be ignored - it is often the most valuable form of feedback.

That is, provided that said feedback is constructive, polite and follows the forum guidelines.
Nobody is going to bother with a post that’s throwing insults in your face, demanding things.

What happened to:

:thinking:

Which would be doable if the team did not consist of 30 or so people, where the actual Q&A branch was just a few persons and a handful of beta testers. They do what they can with what they have.

This is being done as efficiently as possible.

Again, it’s being done as efficiently as possible. Could it be done better? Of course.

They’re doing what they can with what they have. Again, could it be done better? Of course. And it’s likely, they’re trying to improve on such aspects of development with the help from useful criticism and advice from the playerbase, like is being done now.

Nobody is being ignored. But you need to understand that the guys handling community-related services and public relations can’t be everywhere at once. Priorities need to be made, especially in times like these, which are hard on many businesses. Can it be done better? Probably. But that would take time and resources, which sadly isn’t always available.

Now let’s keep the discussion going in this thread civil and constructive.

3 Likes
20

It WAS in from the start, sir!!!
But it worked poorly, and got therefore taken out.
Thus that is an invalid statement.

As for the rest, sir, that’s equally invalid, as that were updates.

Agreed.
4 machine types… 4 classes… the same bloody machines with a tad more armour slapped on, a different weapon and different ammo in some cases does not make that a good machine.
We need more machine types.
Slapping on armour is basically a “lazy” approach, I would dare say, sir?

Agreed, sir, as I said as well.

IMHO, the only way to do this is not through freebies, sir, but getting their act together.
No more classes, no more bugs, but ACTUALLY new stuff.
Mainland revamp was DAMN awesome though, sir.
So was Hjimfall.

They CAN do it… they’ve proven this…
And I truly believe after this BAD setback for consoles, things will change back.
But they seem to even have overcome that obstacle.

And just that, is what brings trust, IMHO, the fact they do not give up, and do all they can to make it work, no matter what holds them back…

21

Giving free dlc is Not Bad for Business, in fact its the opposite , it shows that devs respect the players and understand what gaming is all about. For example look at Ghost of Tsushima, that game was released in perfect condition, almost everyone loved the game and thanked sucker Punch for a Masterpiece, and what did SP do in return? they did not just say thanks they simply announced a Whole new DLC ( 2-player story/4player survival mod/ and a Raid) FOR FREE, they could have charged us but they did not simply becasue its their way to thank the players for support.

Now making DLC paid when the base game its self is a mess clearly shows that devs priorities content over fixes ( even if they spent a whole year on fixes and still it have alot of issues ) look at Anthem/Fallout 76 those games came from AAA devs who care about money, they release paid dlc one after the other without adding the most baisc elements that any game should have.

All am saying is that Systemic Reaction should not walk in the footsteps of these AAA devs especially Systemic Reaction is still a small studio ( dont shoot your self in the leg while you are still young) build a goodwill with your player base.

22

They did.
You got bikes, plundra, LMG, …
Really…
All those were PLAYER requests, sir.

23

I don’t think gifting the DLC to ps4 users would be the right way to go after you’ve had PC and xbox users pay for it. Like many others, you fail to consider the fact that money IS a great factor and many decisions (whether or not there will be paid DLC, when it should be ready, how expensive it will be) are not made by the people who program the game, make the sounds or animate the weapons. They’re made by people who have no idea about the problems that could be there, and they don’t care. They care about seeing a certain amount of revenue at a certain point in time.
Prioritizing between meeting those deadlines and simultaneously living up to the players’ expectations and bringing them new content they want AND delivering a finished and polished product is INCREDIBLY hard and as a dev, you can NEVER satisfy everyone.
Don’t accuse the devs of not caring about you just because they did something you consider bad, try to see the bigger picture

3 Likes
24

I get it, and Anthem and Fallout 76 are the worst possible examples :sweat_smile: .
I´m just saying that in their case is bad for business because they don´t have the financial support other games have.
No man`s sky is a small team, but they Have Sony backing them up, because No man´s sky was supposed to be a big deal, and after it was fixed it actually is Amazing ( I even got it :wink: ).
Anthem has EA for financial support, and Fallout 76 Bethesda, they can loose money by investing in the game.
Now about GZ they need the money from the DLC to keep investing in the game, that is the only reason I say it´s bad for business.
By Mid December if things worked out and if there are no more mistakes, they should have from all the 3 platforms the necessary funding to keep this going on.
In the end there is risk in giving free DLC and there is Risk in not giving it freely.

3 Likes
25

Sir, in truth, no one ever actually said this.
It was a possibility.
The OP agreed, it could be something entirely different: a battle suit, a weapon, a set of both, …
Merely saying, good sir.

AMEN!

And again: Amen!

26

Never said I didnt want #foa2
Thing is all systems are getting bad updates from devs. We dont tell them “Hey I want new concent right now”
We say what we woould like and they shove it out broken.
So yes we have and they should expect the anger. Not our fault, theres.
So take extra month to get it right, but make sure its right.
Companies have been making video games long enough to not have as many issues that they have. Its them making it to fast and there making mistakes.
If in my job I did something like that I would be fired in a minute.
Since I cant fire them, what I can do is not give them my $$ for broken product. Which is exactly what I will do…

27

This is the issue, not one update yet have been delivered without new bugs/crashes or worked as intended.
They seem to rush things out and it’s pretty frustrating because the core of the game is amazing, although it has lost a little bit of it’s originally unique soul at release imo.

I’m sitting on the fence regarding using more money on this game. They have to deliver a pretty flawless update and FR on PS4 (which is not likely) for me to invest more money into this game.
Yes the DLC is cheap and it’s not that I don’t want it…it’s more of a principle to me.

1 Like
28

Might not be theirs, might as well be the engine…
Try to see it like this: Most of GZ works wonderfully well for PC.
The new, redone mainland is darn impressive.
If they can do that…
Then the minor bugs (for PC note) make absolutely no sense.
Some have been around since GZ’s birth, so to speak.
I’ll leave this in the middle, though.

I am not speaking for Console, but I expect this as well to be rather engine related than anything else.

This I’ve been advocating since ever.
And yet, only a handful (in comparison to all existing games) actually do this.
I’ve seen games dying due to this in very early stage.
Having issues, but releasing DLC nonetheless… resulting in much heavier bugs that turned some literally unplayable.
Truly sad…

Some things work badly, I think of the bicycles for one.
But just what causes these issues, and why are they not yet addressed?
I’m sure they tried.
So, what causes this…?

I can get behind this, still…
As PC player, I am not allowed to speak, as we have a decent, stable game.
And this cannot be compared to the XBOX, and I will not even address PS4 here, with the issues.
However, I think, were I in that situation, I would actually get it…
But that’s me…

29

Only the devs know I think :wink:

Thanks for your recommendation, I’ll take that into consideration going forward.

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30

My good sir, it was not a recommendation.
It is what I would do.

This game is gruesomely badass, in so many a way.
While yes, FR is a wee small, and on mainland, the story and the mission are just magnificent.
Then there’s the story continuation to think about.

Sir, even with all the bugs (Sadly only PC had the joys, seems) I’ve enjoyed the game so much, it is about to fall apart due to wear.
I can’t count the hours I played it.

But, that is me, my good sir… :slight_smile:
I suggest to write all ups and downs on a page of paper, objectively, and see if this game is worth to continue or not, for you… :wink:

May the FNIX be with you, sir.

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31

That applies to me too :wink:
It all comes down to the continous new bugs to every new release, the game is almost two years old now, I want a flawless release for once. The core game itself I really enjoy and I will always play this game in between other games regardless…will see about the DLC :wink:

May the FNIX be with you too !

32

I fully understand, that’s a big issue…
And I cannot disagree, no matter how much I want to.
When you are right, you are right, end of story.

And they (player base) all think this.
Rightfully so…

On PC we have had bugs too.
Not that bad, but some were darn annoying as well.
These can’t be compared even.
So, MAYBE I am unfair, I do not know.
April’s patch?
If only I had experienced it.
Crashes?
Ah well, annoying, sure, immersion breaking (and this is what I hate most), HELL yes.
But that is me.
And this would depend on the amount and severity of crashes.

Still, the game is to me THAT great, I just swallow it, and buy the next pack when I finally get the money.
For FR, this was a few weeks, to get 8 Euro together.
A cripple with a wife and 4 daughters… GOD they are expensive… XD
My son is more like me, we’re content with what we have.
Thankfully.
But the women… oi oi oi oi… XD

I hope you make the right decision FOR YOU, sir.
Ignore what others say, and think for yourself.

It’s like weapons in GZ: “Hey, can anyone tell me what is better: A5, Ak or A4?”
I always tell them, it is a matter of taste, test them all and see which one YOU prefer…
I’ve seen folks say the best is one of them, but it’s almost going up for all of them equally.
If one considers over time, they seem equally good, depending on use and so.

Same here.
See what’s best for YOU, and act on this, my friend. :wink:

Use the FNIX, Bella, Use the FNIX…

33

Well spoken and broken down. I don’t have the eloquence to do something like that but thank you for doing it for me. :+1:t4:

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34

I think that PS4 users deserve lower DLC price than on Xbox console/Steam because of such a long waiting.

35

Reply moved to proper topic.

//Mod

36

While sure, it will give you a lower price, it will give Avalanche a lower income.
Bad idea, they live of our money, sir.

You HAVE been compensated…
A free patch, today… :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like