Review the stealth mechanic

Hi Avalanche,
so far, I really enjoy this game. The atmosphere is there, the weapon feel great, what would be a great aspect to work a bit in my opinion is the stealth mechanic. I’ll explain myself, there are “skills” to reduce noise level and crouching speed (which is good to have in-game), we have silencer (with different noise reduction related to quality), but the robot entering combat (see me) after a shot from 150m away with a silenced Sniper … which even for robot with sensor, break the stealth aspect a bit. Not saying we should be able to destroy the entire Airfield with none the wiser, but an in-between would be perfect and reduce the in-combat distance when we flee, we still are “in-combat” way longer than we should IMO, I think after 5-10 sec. away from the enemy detection they should be in “search mode” not still shooting at me after I break line of sight for a certain amount of time.

Thank you, hope you find those feedback pertinent and wish you a really nice day.

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I Agree stealth probably needs a revamp its been the same since launch as far as I can remember.

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Thanks for sharing. Agree, definitely something to look a bit closer at!

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I can say that there is a good base for stealth as main style. Tweaks here and there are enough for “thiefs”/“trappers”, but not for “assassins”. Latter are suffer from instant detection when machine isn’t OHKO’d even from quite far distance even with related skills and gear.
As I said before with my posts about smokescreen - root of the problem lies in AI’s perception and it’s “pretending” to search for player.

Hmm? I am very confused about this thread and stealth skills. It may be players are not using/learning how to use stealth correctly or not soon enough when encounter machines. Knowing and understanding how and what the machine sees is the key.

My main character is a Van Guard skill set with no stealth skills or crafted clothing but can sneak into a large group of machines undetected. Speed is the last thing needed and no rush for time. But bad timing or moving at the wrong time will get you detected. That includes when picking off machines one at a time undetected. And for best successful results advanced gear.

Screenshots of a sleeping reaper, runners patrolling all around it and I was able to get under the machine. If I was wanting to plant gas cans it would have been so easy since the reaper was sleeping and not moving. To get here took more than 15 minutes and a lot of crawling.


EDIT: In my opinion only: This is one of the skills that needs to be learned from learning the dynamics of the game and interacting with the machines.

This works because you have not engaged combat, the OP is talking about once you have entered combat stealth becomes a impossibility, they know where you are basically instantly and all the skills, silencers and crawling you just did has gone to waste.

Sneaking up to things is perfect, the stealth there is amazing.

Though actual in combat stealth is something I too have noticed is impossible to do.

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Exactly my point (NiceThighsBaby), thanks for pointing does specifics. I’m not saying the base stealth mechanic is to be changed in any ways, however, once we’re detected which is almost always right after the first shot (even with stealth gear and silenced weapons) it become almost impossible to remain sneaky and when you break line of sight for certain amount of time, even robot should change their pattern for a searching mode, anyway it’s only my opinion and I thing there’s something interesting that could be done with this feedback.

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Also, I would like to point that Seekers have too much detection duration (or range), because when I’m entering a bunker (and was previously detected by one) and leave that bunker from a completely different entrance/exit, and still detected from that far away, this also need to be tweaked a bit. As always, all my sharing are ideas, I’m glad to see some different opinion about my thoughts, and if some are kept it’s awesome, if not I’m glad that the dev. are still reading them are take time to reply. Thanks again and let me know what you think about the Seekers detection mechanic.

Well, my opinion that “hot stealth suxx” in this game comes from my experience using smoke inside and outside of combat. Tanks are that dumb to pull off stunt like SniperGirl showed us and “roaming” (white light) machines aren’t too attentive to surroundings, hounds are more on “blind” side.

I agree that machine AI aren’t perfect, but taking 15 min. to go under a TANK is not my playstyle (I know for a fact now that it can be done with those screenshots), what bother me a bit much is the duration of the detection and when line of sight is broken with whatever type of machine. I think the key here is a different stage for machine, what I mean is a “search mode” pattern. Heck I don’t even use Smoke grenade because I consider them useless (which I may be wrong of course), what if I throw a smoke grenade and I’m spotted right away it defy the point to use them as stealth accessories.

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Yeah they only use their scanners to search for a player (I assume visual effect as they never actually catch me with the scanner) when you’re doing the normal stealth, i’ve never seen it used in actual combat.

It’s my understanding that they use their scanner even when they know my position. I think scanners should only be use when not in combat or if a “search” behavior is implemented in the game, because the only search mode that is present at the moment is before entering combat (yellow eye/light).

Thing is, “combat” smoke is actually useful on tanks and harvesters, no series exceptions. Hunters and runnera are outright ignore it.
In silent stealth only throwable smoke can help you to sneak around as long as you don’t make much noise - machines are more perceptive to sound than visuals.
Current problem is machines’ search mode, especially when alerted by gunshot.

Thanks for the tips, I will definitively have to try this. I’m sure it will make a huge difference in my approach (specially Harvester, those guy take less damage to take down than Tanks, but they spawns Hunters faster than I can say … well you got the idea).

Hi! Not going to repeat your name so I will just use NTB

It is possible to pick off runners and even hunters without causing the other machines around to engage. Again, it is knowing the characteristics of the machines and when and how to engage.

I am not sure what combat stealth should be like when the machines use sonar, radar (EDIT: oopps! Xray) and infrared detection. I do know you can pick off the runners around a reaper without the reaper engaging. Pick off hunters around a harvester without the harvester engaging or calling in more hunters. Runners and hunters on patrol, walking inline, are easy to pick off without the others engaging.

I also pick on a reaper enough from time to time to get him away from my rivals without the rivals engaging.

Oh, if I knew how to post a video, I have one of me shooting a car over and over with an APOC hunter standing with his back to it. Each shot he quickly turns around and the white detection bar lights up. I was waiting for him to shoot the car or pounce on it. It was funny like tapping someone on the opposite shoulder.

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Well, again I will have to test those tactics, sound really good. Can I ask which platform you’re using ? I’m asking, because I’ve read somewhere that machine are harder on PS4 (for example, the rocket salvo from Harvester have less of a lobbing curve than on PC or XBOX, so certain tactics may not apply the same on console and PC, it may have change, it’s all theory here so take it with a grain of salt).

This mainly relies on distance and damage output, if I shot a runner from a long distance it’s going to comer over and investigate, assuming its buddies didn’t get damage from the specifc ammo, guntype or if they heard the gunshot.

This links back to in-combat stealth.
There is no, for example [CAUTION] like in the fallout games
It’s either [HIDDEN] or [DANGER]
I’ve never experienced an inbetween, it’s complete silence, high DPS or you’re atop a mountain a kilometer or so away.

Depending on our playstyles our experience may differ, you may have mastered stealth better than I and i’m speaking out of assumption and you’re speaking out of experience.

Based on my experienced, this is what i’ve had happen.
I ended up ditching snipers completely because of them coming over to attack me straight away after shooting it, I only use them to take out a relay beacon and then I dash for it, as they just know i’m there.

I like the fact you bring Fallout (big fan here, less with the latest entries) as an example for stealth detection and mechanic. I think Fallout have a decent detection system and without doing a copy and paste in GenZ some of it could be nicely implemented in the game (with great results).

Combat smoke only slightly mess up their aim - it’s hard to explain on text and I’m currently away from home ‘till early November, so I can’ t compile a video either. In short - tank will aim the center of cloud which was aggro’ing it, same goes for harvester, making it’s rocket salvo tight and more controllable/predictable, but won’t help against called hunters.

“Silent” smoke can be helpful in setting up traps in plain sight, since machines ain’t react to smoke puff.

There’s “detection marker” in game, that shows direction of machine the picking up your presence with three colors - white (still roaming), yellow ([CAUTION], search mode) and red that automatically triggers combat mode.

Nice tips here, I will try them for sure, see how it goes. I’ve some testing to do with a variety of accessories to refine my approach (mostly when playing solo with Apoc. Class), because let’s face it when we play Co-op with strangers it more often than most a gun blazing fest.

Thanks again folks for those pointers and hope to catch more ideas, insights and discussions like that. And hopefully devs. finds some of them constructive and pertinent.

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