7.62 snipers are kinda pointless in this game tbh. Snipers would make a big difference against meat targets but against armoured machines whatever ammo you use is going to make very little difference unless the machines had a particularly weak point that a sniper could hit from a long distance. I use the .50 BMG as comparison and for sniping any target there is nothing that gets close in effectiveness with such a huge difference in the energy. One reason for this is that the max sniping range is determined by the max draw distance. Since the latter is less than the maximum range for most snipers it allows less time and fewer shots fired than potentially possible. Thus only the most powerful ammunition has an impact.
Nerd alert
The muzzle energy of the various sizes of ammunition in the game are roughly as follows:
- .50 BMG between 14,000 and 20,000J
- 7.62 about 3,500J (5,600J for the 67mm sniper rounds)
- .32 about 300J
- 9mm about 500-750J
- .243 around 2,500J
- .270 around 3,500J
- .44 about 1,000 to 2,000J depending on grain and type.
As such there’s not really an awful lot of difference between the 7.62 rifles and the .270 for the älgstudsare but there’s a huge gap up to the .50 BMG, by a magnitude of 4 to 6 times the energy. As such I can’t see much point in spending time and effort on adjusting damage output for the various rifles. For any rifle below .50 cal it matters more what you hit than what you hit with it seems.
At long range both the S21 and Kotenok would be great guns with their excellent accuracy but the drawing distance negates that advantage.
The 9mm AP (9mm m/39B) for K-pist. When fired from that specific weapon it has 574J and can penetrate a 7cm brick Wall or up to 50 layers of kevlar.
But back to the snipers. The S21. I haven’t tried it yet. Don’t feel that I have any use for it. So I can’t say anything about how it is in the game. The Kotenok on the other hand I have and it went back in the box. Too weak compared to the Älgstudsare. And for me the Älgstudsare is an awesome sniper. Perfect for runners and seekers. A bit slow reload in fights against bigger targets.
Please devs, S21 needs to have more damage.
Because it´s a good weapon.
The Kotenok has the same issue (although its even worse)
All I really wanted from the DMR’s was a rifle that traded full auto capability and magazine capacity for accuracy, stability, and the ability to mount a low powered optic.
Right now the DMR’s are accurate enough, but the recoil is pretty harsh and it limits my ability to place shots where I need them quickly. I suppose if the rifles had a damage boost then that might balance things out a bit and make them more usable, but that would be pretty awkward. Barrel length might count for a small velocity boost but it wouldn’t be enough to justify the damage boost over the AG4 that’s needed to make the DMR’s more useful.
Honestly though, I find it faster and more reliable to just use an AG4 with the 1-4 scope and pepper the target with rounds as it’s running in.
Really, the rifle cartridge damage discrepancies need to be ironed out. There’s some pretty wonky damage issues in the game, as incendito rightly pointed out.
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Since Yesterday i have the level 5* S21, while playing in Skirmish difficulty I still cant destroy runners with one shot (as i can with the other 2 rifles).
It is still a very weak rifle in terms of damage.
I agree with this, but this is the same game where .270 and .243 are significantly more powerful than 7.62x51 and 9mm is on par with 5.56. So I don’t think boosting the DMRs’ damage would be that big of a deal. I’d rather them be usable than realistic, myself.
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People underestimate the insane increase in power barrel length can give, difference from a 7.62 fire from an AK config vs. a long-barrel RPK config can be quite heavy (up to a point). But I agree with Vlad that game design rules in these cases and having half of your guns being unrealistic in some way and then asking for guns that perform bad to terrible to be worse due to realism seems like an unrealistic ask. If you implement something, implement it right and make it viable (at least in its role). We are throwing realism out the window anyway, firing .50 BMG rifles from standing, strafing with LMGs like it’s DOOM…
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You’re right about barrel length, but in this case the KVM 59 actually has a longer barrel than either of the DMRs. So it realistically would be even more powerful lol.
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Yeah this is why I went on about balancing each weapon for its role, devs could easily increase DMR power, but this also has something to do with the perks for it in the skill tree, the automatic gun damage perks are just easier to reach, have more useful perks on their way and automatic guns in this game perform far more consistently than single fire weapons, which suck until you reach the PvG which has a huge jump in power and is the strongest weapon in the game in terms of reliable and sustained damage at any range.
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I agree with you idea of balancing the DMRs, as it is today there is no reason to use them.
To much recoil with to little damage and to small magazines dont make for great gameplay when trying to hit small components on moving targets.
Either they should change the damage from the DMRs or give it a special class of ammo.
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Explosive rounds for DMR’s would be cool. It could be more rare, but give it a nice edge in combat.
From my experience I can say that the exp explosive rounds (9mm, .44, .50) aren’t really worth the uranium.
The DMR’s use 7.62. So use the exp shock rounds for them. That’s funny.
I’m not talking about experimental rounds, I’m talking specific DMR ammo that would be programmed in, sorry for any confusion.
I’d be all in if the S21 (M14) and also the Kotenok (SVD) get a buff to better bridge the gap between assault rifles (mainly the AG4/G3) and the two hunting rifles.
They definitely need less recoil to better stay on target and get more precision plus a tad more damage to at least one shot Runners when hit in the fuel cell.
My 2 Ct.
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Same. If you can’t one shot a prototype runner with a hit to its fuel cell with armor piercing ammo, you’ve got an issue.
Mmh I disagree.
Both are weapon pack weapons.
That means that you have them right from the beginning on in your plundra, which I don’t like. Ok, maybe there is a lack of ammo at the beginning.
But as new player you shouldn’t be able to one-shot your first enemies. That would destroy the immersion even more in the beginning.
But I agree that a 5c S21 or Kotenok should be much stronger than the actual versions.
Can’t the 1c Meusser one-shot prototype Runner fuel tanks too? You can get that very early from that hunter side mission.
I even don’t know anymore if I ever used a 1c meusser.
Here are some users who already compared the calibers in real life. I’m not sure, but I think that it’s stronger than 7.62 in general.
Mind that the .243 ammo is more rare than 7.62 and that the capacity of the magazines are very small for the hunting rifles, so it would be ok.
The 1c Meusser can indeed 1 shot the Proto runner fuel cells but The Hunter side mission gives you a 2c Meusser, you get the 1c Meusser from a side mission just after the first farm.
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.243 has a better velocity but .308 (which is very similar to both DMRs’ 7.62) is about 40-50% more powerful.
I think that putting the DLC guns directly into your Plundra from that start is silly anyway, makes no sense that these foreign weapons appear from thin air.
And I agree that the ubiquitous 7.62 shouldn’t be as powerful as the rarer .243/.270. That’s why I think the DMRs should’ve been given unique middle ground ammo, to bridge the gap between the assault rifles and hunting rifles. But I seriously doubt they’re gonna do that at this point.