Should machines be able to follow you indoors?

All of it reall comes down to if it’s possible to do in the graphics engine, if the ai can handle it and how much it would cost Avalanche to do it. But lets disregard that and just state what we would like to see and wish for.

Mmm yes doggies shoting the lock away would do it.

Ticks sure should be able to enter open doors and destroyed windows and given how much explosives are mounted on FNIX Ticks I feel they should be able to blow away a normal wood door.

If the machines have the bar code they can get through the bunker doors that are opened with bar codes, armored mechanicly opened doors should not be possible I think.

Seekers do not need to enter a normal house but it would be another distraction if they did and could herd you around a bit.
Should be needed to enter bunkers to find you though, too much rock to “see” through.

I don’t like machines to be able to follow inside safe houses, take away the whole meaning of safe. Could be less safe houses on the map though.

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@Wolfkindcx
OOOOH, nice comeback. JK.

Actually, I can agree on the entire idea.
Nice work, sir!!!

I’ll write you down as a Pro, then?

Sure, let the machines enter houses.

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@Wolfkindcx
Done.
Thank you for co-operating in the “poll”. :slight_smile:

@Bootie
OMG, I just saw your post, I apologise!!!

Please elaborate on why not allowed upstairs? :slight_smile:
Thank you sir.

Yes they should be able to follow you inside.

Ticks should be able to follow you up stairs. Depending on the stairs, runners too.

A safehouse should not unlock as a safehouse until you clear it out and make it safe. After that there should be no machines when you first spawn into one but if you run into it while in combat they can still follow you in.

I’m not against them being able to use codes to scan themselves into bunkers or destroy certain doors to gain entry.

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On the plus side, it would clean up the lore. We see dogs in houses in the environmental storytelling a couple of times. Or rather, we find their “corpses”, but we never observe any enter a building (not counting the dodgy teleport). Having dogs enter would bring their actual behavior in line with the environmental storytelling. Also, hunter and dog currently occupy very similar roles, and if one could enter the houses and the other couldn’t, that give a better justification for having both.

That said, I think in terms of gameplay, it’s a solution in search of a problem.

This is irrelevant to co-op, as nothing’s scary in co-op past the first few levels.

In solo, if you have an easy matchup like, say, a FNIX tank, you just walk up and kick it over, because it’s much quicker and safer to not use cover. You only bother with a building (and the slow and dangerous defensive style it implies) when you’re at quite a disadvantage already; trying to add extra dog threat seems redundant at that point.

Also speaking for myself, I close doors behind me anyway so I won’t get shot, so it sounds like a lot of extra AI for something that probably won’t really happen a lot in actual gameplay.

Having had both dogs and hunters spawn in living rooms, it also bears noting that having one die in a doorway is annoying since you can’t then move it. That sort of thing would probably need addressing.

If we add the ability to beat down doors, I see this mostly as a bit harsh on the beginners who are outnumbered, outgunned, don’t know the strategies, and ran like hell to make it to a house. If every house is a deathtrap (rather than just the one level barns due to dodgy teleports), I fear beginners might get frustrated and leave. We’ve had people complain about the difficulty/learning curve as it is.

And if it’s realism we’re talking about, one of my major suspension of disbelief breakers is “machines have infinite ammo.” Like, consider the dogs. Where are they even putting it? I’d argue that if after shooting their load they had to return to a harvester to re-supply, it may make for interesting dynamics. (In the same vein, stealthily following a harvester to a re-supply point would then be an obvious self-guided activity. This strikes me as one of the missed opportunities in this game.) I can believe a tank bringing some MG rounds to a gunfight, but an endless supply of rockets? For that matter, why can’t we shoot out the windows of apartment buildings? Also I could swear we could crawl in the beta, what happened to that? Why is there no sleep function in safehouses that fast forwards 8 hours?

If we could randomly reallocate developer time in the name of “realism”, any of the above would seem more interesting to me, and I could probably think of another dozen. Like “why can’t we shoot out the lighthouses?”, “What’s with the lights in some houses that can’t be disabled?”, or the big, really obvious first question of co-op realism, “What about friendly fire?” etc.

So that’s a “No, probable misallocation of resources” from me.

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i believe that this could be part of a option ( hardcore / realistic ) . personally i think they should be able to. +1 Pro . great post.

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Runners and hunters do enter barn first floors through the ramp, if both doors are open.

It is bad enough that broken windows mend themselves when you turn your back on them. But if ripped off doors attach themselves to the hinges again … hmmm :thinking:

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That of course is absolutely true, I should’ve written “houses” (as they’re the example for, we see disabled runners in there in some of the environmental storytelling, but we don’t really encounter active ones in there unless it’s a dodgy teleport).

Yes, all that is also part of a bigger problem (that what items are and aren’t destructable / offer perfect cover isn’t always realistic). I find it much easier to live with bots not breaking down the door than with unbreakable windows in apartment blocks. In fact I think I’m as sad about never seeing any of the apartments as I am about not getting in the shops. Which is weird, because “more cookie cutter living spaces” doesn’t obviously seem like the answer to anything, but yet, here we are. :smile:
I guess I’d just like to try sniping from a really long, reasonably tall house for once. :smile:

That’s the other thing though.
You requested Daleks (bots that can’t climb stairs). As the apartment buildings basically have stairs first thing into the door, unbreakable windows, and food (if you don’t have any, your neighbors probably will), they’re functionally fortresses. Why are there no people inside? How were they taken? Did they all just follow the evacuation siren to the Morlocks, while some of the farmers made a stand? That would be … convenient. :wink:

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@kakarron
Thank you for responding, pro added.

@Ennui
Interesting points.
Both for Pro, as for Con.
You vote con despite you see the logic of it, and I really do accept the cons as well, these are really good explained, and your con preference is good motivated.

The infinite ammo is, sadly, a necessity for the game.
Yes, not fun, and I addressed this in other posts too, but seeing how easy the machines are…
As for misallocation of resources, it would help the game in certain ways, but when you point out, other things are -if not even more- important (like new land to explore, new story, new mission/side mission,…) then I need to say, you’re CERTAINLY not incorrect.
Now, I put it like this, because, if I am to suggest it, I would not see it necessary to have this as primary target for the game.
If this was done over time as secondary, even tertiary goal, I would still be darn glad.
Simply because, like you pointed it out, sir, it explains a few things, and it would fit the story as well as the logic for machine behavior.

I’ll note you down as Con.

Thank you very much for your reply. :slight_smile:

@jakel
Thank you sir.
Noted as Pro.

We all know the Seekers got them from higher points by beeping the people into coma, where they then dragged the comatose bodies to ground floor so the other machines were fed.
That is how machines got the clothing in their inventory, right?
LOL!
We can either assume they all nicely followed the military protocol and lead to evacuate.
Did they make it?
Who knows…
Will possible survivors make it?
Who knows.
It is likely they evacuated, but my utter nonsense “can just as well be true”, since, there simply is no exact proof of what happened.
Naturally, my nonsense was just that, of course, it’s a hyperbolic load of ludicrous madness with no value, but to make a point.
Time will tell us where, when, what, who.
Still, machines able to climb stairs?
They DID in some locations…
So, they simply can.
How else did they in some places get up there?
No?

Thank you all, VERY kind to show interest in this discussion. :slight_smile:

Yeah, that would be pretty neat. I almost had a heart attack the first time a hunter spawned inside a house. I was just making my way downstairs and a hunter was casually hanging out in the hallway. The doorways are to small for hunters to fit through, but runners shooting down doors and coming after you would totally make sense.

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For me, because if they did, you would literly have nowhere to hide, or to rework your weapon load-out, or to heal, and every encounter where you were badly ourtnumbered would finish in the end of your medkits, and ad shots, and the only option would be Doom-Mongering - that is: tearing around in the open, strafing, screaming and firing. That’s not what I want to play. Some of my most memorable, longest, most epic fights have been under siege in a house. These are scenes I remember vividly to this day (even though they might have been months ago). I loved them, at the time and thinking back.

Now, in real life, they would stand off and shell the house to pieces - blow it up around your ears. They’d do the same in the open, mind you. The first machine to find you would call in all the others and hunt you and kill you - we could have too much realism!

Two friends of mine were in Korea. One night they set up their 7.62 GPMG in “Fixed Firing” mode, and during the night they fired at a house on the other side of the valley - about 700 metres away. Each time they fired 20 rounds and clicked the wheel one click. In the morning the house (a stone house) was a pile of rubble. These houses are clapboard. There’s not a thing in a Swedish 70s house that would even slow down a 7.62, not even you - that round would go through you and nine of your friends. So we need a balance!

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@INTERPOL
Thank you.
So, I can write you down as Pro?

@Bootie
Though you DO make sense, in ways, the game is not about you being safe.
Otherwise, the safe houses could be OPTIONALLY open to being followed in by machines, IF they made it as such, if not, these would be simply that: SAFE!
While I would not mind being shot while I am sorting things out in my Plundra, to others this would be darned frustrating, I fully agree.
This been said: a game being too “realistic” (GAME-realistic!!!), can happen, just NOT in a game as GZ.
Simply because, they have a story to tell, and being NOT realistic just murders the story, IMHO.
Now, and I cannot stress this hard enough: this game is “serious business” for me, in such a way, that I, as player, actually role play my character.
Once I fire up GZ, I am that brat in that reality.
And I play it as correct as I would (or THINK I would, never been in this situation, so I can only make assumptions as to how I ACTUALLY would respond in such case) in that reality.
This said, however, I REALLY appreciate your input.
And I respect it.
You are most certainly NOT wrong, though we have opposing point of views.
When GZ is running, I’m not a laid-back player having a fun time, no, I am being chased by machines that (should) scare the bloody life out of me, and I do the nigh impossible to survive, even if that would mean to chew one up out of hunger (hyperbole of course, plastic just tastes bad).
So, you’re DAMN right, from the more laid-back player PoV.

Thank you, sir, for your reaction! :slight_smile:
Note you down as Con.

Yes! I have been wanting this for awhile. Would make battles much more intense and force you to constantly change your strategy.

@1ndigo_5oul
Thank you, sir.
Noting you down as pro.

EDIT: Interesting how people seem to like more game-realism in GZ.
9 Pro vs 2 Con, 1 abstain…
I actually had figured people would be far more con.
I mean, when I see at posts saying “Game too hard”…
I am so happy I was wrong in that regard!

I think you misunderstand me - I play the game intensely, I move as I moved as Marine, I use everything I ever learned. If you wanted house realism, then you’d never be caught in, or fight, from a house. Those .50 cals on the Tanks would go through a whole street. And since we know ('cos we pick them up) that they have, not just IR, but x-ray. They’d machine gun you in five seconds. A cave might work, but then they’sd send in the rocket dogs and that ends that. The bunkers would be your only hope - to defend an entrance and keep the doors shut behind you.

I think dogs and ticks should get into houses, but I doubt a dog would take the stairs (stairs are really difficult for machines (IRL). I could live with it. A hunter couldn’t get it, since it’s 14 ft tall. And I don’t mean fiddling about with the Plundra, just changing gun slots, or finding another pack of medkits. I am pushed to respec as it is.

I certainly don’t think the game is too hard.

@Bootie
I never said you did, sir.
I said, several posts on the forum are about “game too hard”.
For them, machines following you in house would be less funny.

To others then, like me, who prefer more “game-realism”, it would be the thing to have.

For size I fully agree, for stairs, no, as the machines in GZ clearly CAN go up stairs.
In some places you can find machines (runners) on the first floor (second floor for US people).
Hell, one can even REASON.
So, from that point out, they are advanced enough to climb stairs…?

Well if it tries to climb up my stairs, it’s going to DIE.

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@Bootie
GO FOR IT! :slight_smile:
Very valid tactics even, it’s a choke point.