"Simulated ballistics" in GZ?


#1

Has anyone been able to wrap their head around the ballistics when sniping in the game?
There is supposed to be simulated ballistics in the game, but I can’t make any sense of it.
I shoot a .30-06 rifle in real life, and if I zero it at 100 meters, the bullet will drop 15 cm at 200 meters and 35 cm at 300 meters, roughly speaking.
In GZ it seems like the best bet is to aim right where you want to hit, at any distance. I tried to snipe a Runner at about 280 meters, so I aimed just slightly above him, thinking the bullet would hit the head or fuel tank, but no. The bullet hit the ground above and behind him. I emptied the magazine just to see, and all 4 bullets hit the same spot, indicating no bullet drop whatsoever… It seems to be the same with all three sniper rifles.
I’ll add that I currently don’t have any reduced weapon sway or weapon recoil skills or marksman specialization, if that’s got anything to say?

Has anyone researched this a bit more, or figured it out?


#2

Maybe the game auto correct the scope so it is set at the accurate distance for what you are looking at.


#3

@Terrorrobot I thought about that, but if that’s the case, why call it simulated ballistics if the players don’t have to pay any attention to it? :slightly_smiling_face:
Players should have to calculate bullet drop themselves, that would be more exciting.


#4

I agree.
But I’ve noticed that sometimes I have to aim slightly below. Like on a runners tank. Sometimes I can aim directly at it. Other times I must aim just under the tank or it will miss.


#5

Yep, I have noticed that as well… Weird.


#6

There’s definitely ballistics in the game. Shotgun shells (birdshot especially) tend to lose velocity at longer ranges, and eventually hit the ground. At extreme ranges around 300 meters you have to aim above a target to hit it. This is especially prevalent with the Hunting Rifles. I wouldn’t mind more detailed optics so we can measure ranges before we place the shot.

Hm… Has anyone actually considered that wind may be what’s playing into shots sometimes going in weird places at longer ranges? Can this be confirmed somehow? :slight_smile:


#7

Its not simulated in any way that you would consider normal or correct. Like Arma for example. That is pretty good simulation for bullet physics.

However this game is not grounded in realism, so it should be more arcadish/forgiving. It doesnt stop the bullets, but what it does do is 100% change the physics. At that range I dont know what happens. You can have the cross hairs perfectly on the machine and nothing happens.

You can raise the arc of firing and see if bullet drop is the issue and there is no indication that it is. You can shoot 50 meters closer to you than the target and it hits. You can aim directly at it and it will fly over the machines head or to the left or right of it by miles. There is no knowing or predicting from gun to gun. We dont even know if wind speed is a factor because there is no indication that it is or should be.

I highly doubt they included windspeed and multiple zero out ranges per weapon. If they did, we cant predict or know what those speeds or ranges might be per scope/rifle combo. Since I doubt that its that complicated it only leaves one possible option. Machine AI and world effects/feedback in game.

What I think is happening is that we are hitting them at those ranges, but there is no indication that it hit them. They do not or cant respond to damage from a specific distance. This is because the damage a machine has taken is persistent for your entire session. That way when you come across the machine later in the session, its just as damaged as it was when decided to stop shooting it/died last time. I think this is done so that when you die/quick travel or run away, that Machines do not maintain agro to you. Otherwise each time you respawned anywhere in the world, the machines would try to get to your location again. So they set a range at which all machines will ignore the player character. We know friendly fire is on between the machines, so the AI is probably counting the damage source as not coming from the player character.

Mix that with the fact that at range there is no visual or audio indication that you damaged the machine and you can only assume you missed hitting it entirely. Thats probably due draw distance and visual processing savings for the engine and not something done on purpose.

A fix for this would be to increase agro ranges to 2000 meters or more as long as Line of Sight and Sound/Audio indication are feasible for the machines AI to respond to. So if you use a silenced weapon for example and you duck behind cover before the bullet hits, the machine may have a harder time finding you. If you stay out of sight and/or stop making lots of noise, then agro should stop. Since there is no traditional agro indicator/mechanic to drop agro, then I am not sure that can ever happen in the game. They can use the Animal indicator mechanics from Hunter COTW and reverse it. The machines attack instead of run away when agroed. That would require them to add cover values to foliage and would require them to allow players to go prone and hide like in Hunter COTW.

The next part of the fix would involve dropping 100% of agro upon death and then not allowing the player to respawn anywhere within 1000 meters of those specific damaged machines. Even if there is a safehouse within that 1000 meter radius. The only thing that can bypass that mechanic is the radio beacons. To combat people just stock piling them and using them as adrenaline replacements, make the radio beacons take up 3 vertical slots in the inventory.

I dont know how much the engine shares with Hunter COTW, but there is no reason to re invent the wheel when the code already exists. All that it would be would be a behavior change on the part of the machines versus the way Animals react in HCOTW. O and significantly increase draw distance and animations when using the scope so player can get an indication that something happened with the bullets.


#8

now that is a decent reply, i would love to see some answers like this posted for ( FAQ ) on the forum, so ppl can look first before asking the same questions again.


#9

Yeah, the in-game ballistics are a bit bonkers. On the combat rifles and .50 cal, you do indeed want to aim exactly where you want to hit. The hunting rifles, however, consistently have pretty significant bullet rise past about 50m (either that, you your character is a really bad marksman and constantly anticipating the recoil and raising the gun themselves as they pull the trigger). Handguns also seem to get a bit odd past about 20m (but that’s not all that unexpected, it’s rare IRL to find someone who can reliably hit a target with a factory handgun beyond 25m). On top of all of that, scopes apparently make you literally more accurate proportionate to the magnification, so you can improve your accuracy with the same gun and same scope just by improving the magnification (which is super-unrealistic).

Also, hitting things past a certain range doesn’t visibly register because the visual feedback is done with particle effects, and they just plain don’t render those past a certain range (ever noticed how if you damage a bot from far away then get close you only start actually seeing the sparks once you get close enough?).


#10

@Terrorbot So that is actually grounded in reality. At very close ranges you do need to aim low to hit your target in real life. Bullets do not leave the barrel in a straight line, but in an arc which I’m sure you knew already. The in game ballistic arcs do need some tweaking though. The close range bullet behavior is more or less good enough but bullet drop at long ranges seems way off.


#11

The bullet rise seems rather high too. I don’t know exact values for .243 or .270, but I seriously doubt that they creep up 5-10 centimeters from the point of aim like I’m regularly seeing at the typical ranges I’m using them.

Interestingly enough though, I’ve seen essentially zero bullet rise on the .50 BMG in game…


#12

Depending on the caliber and range 10cm (roughly 3 in) is about right. M855 ball (5.56 NATO) has roughly that in my experience at around 25 yards. I don’t know what ranges you’re shooting at so I can’t truly judge. If it’s anything plus or minus I’d say 8 yards then yeah the games “ballistics” are fucked.


#13

Typically 80-100m if I’m using the .243 or .270, and those are actually the only guns I’m seeing it on (I’ve used the AG 4 as a DMR a number of times at a similar range, and never saw any such issues with that, and I never have issues with the PVG 50). Probably feels so off to me because I’m used to using much heavier rounds IRL (I rarely ever shoot anything down at the gun range that’s smaller than 7.5mm caliber).


#14

At those ranges, if you still have to hold low then I’d say the devs might need to take a look at the aim models on the weapons in this game cause that doesn’t seem right (a better idea would be to allow us to zero the weapons manually but I don’t know if the game could support that.) I haven’t messed around with the .243 or .270 much so I haven’t noticed problems. Guess I’ll try them and see.


#15

I wrote something about that issue too.
Here:
https://forum.generationzero.com/t/bullet-drop-of-snipers-goes-in-the-wrong-direction/16365


#16

The annoying part is it isn’t consistently super-high at that range, just averages out in my experience to about 5-10cm, possibly because of the somewhat poor accuracy of both guns.

BTW, if you want to test, look for at least a good gun, preferably exceptional. The lower the quality, the worse the accuracy, which makes it harder to test reliably.


#17

Thanks for the tip. I have exceptional or better for all of them but they’re just sitting with my “suitcase characters”