Everyone just hold up a sec

General Discussion
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Okay, so we all know that the may update messed things up. We know that the game has several bug issues, and despite two major updates and several patches the game is still as buggy as ever. We all know that this game has amazing potential and that it would have been much better if it was marked as an early-access game. In short we all know that the devs kind of messed up.

But why don’t we just slow down for a second.

It’s getting kind of annoying scrolling through the forums, hoping for some cool bot ideas, and being bombarded with thousands of off-topic complaints about the game, and how everyone should just refund it. Yes the devs made some mistakes, and yes they could have done a much better job, but just consider: The devs are only human, much like yourself, and like you they make mistakes, sometimes very large ones (y’all remember that one middle school dance … of course you do).

The point is that the devs don’t deserve all the crap you’re sending them. This game was a passion project for them, and they have every right to ignore the community, but they haven’t. They sent out surveys, and scrolled through the forum and all the muck inside to figure out what could make the game better. That shows commitment

Yes they didn’t really get the big issues everyone’s been talking about, but they did at least listen to the community, even if they didn’t act on it.

I for one love the game. I’m a ps4 player, and after the update I can’t even play it. I’m annoyed as well. But you also have to look at the other side. Stop being an annoyed “may I speak to your manager” customer, and start being a bit more chill. Avalanche studio worked really hard on this game, and are still working hard. It’s not that easy to just “fix a bug” it takes a lot of hard work and a lot of time searching through the code, searching through everything, and currently I get the feeling that the main point of the may update was to pacify the crowd while they worked on some bigger issues, which clearly backfired.

As it is I’m sick and tired of hearing everyone complain about the game. I am not in any way opposed to people posting bug reports, but on almost every one I’ve seen people urge others to refund the game, and lament how they cannot refund.

You bought the game. You spent forty dollars on it. That’s not a decision that should have been made on a whim. It should have been thought out.

The devs didn’t force you to buy the game. You chose. Most of you at one point really loved and enjoyed the game, even if the bugs did annoy you.

The game isn’t everything you hoped for. So what? suck it up and stop whining about how the devs ruined everything. They gave you this game, they have every right to tear it down and rebuild it the way they want.

If you’ve made it all the way down here thanks for enduring my rant, I don’t mean to personally attack anyone.

EDIT: Just to clarify: I’m not saying that you can’t regret buying the game, I’m saying that you shouldn’t go posting about it everywhere on the forum that you possibly can. I still feel that everyone should just be a bit more patient however. It’s been roughly three months since the game was released, and honestly Avalanche could do a lot in just one month. It’s just a game, and the devs shouldn’t be getting this much crap and heart-breaking drama for mistakes they made on their passion project.

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great post, cant agree more.

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I couldn’t disagree with you more. Most of your post bears no reality to how people choose and purchase products, or to what those exectations should be. This shouldn’t ever have been released in the shambolic state it was.

Your post is supporting the endemic and utterly repulsive bar being that a lot of devs seem to think that they can just shove any half arsed and half baked product out of the door, and get away with fixing it later.

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I would be in some agreement, if it wasn’t for the fact that it has made things considerably worse for the PS4 users.

Also much of the bad feeling could simply be fixed by stating what hasn’t been done because it’s a deeper issue than they expected.

But that hasn’t happened it’s being spun for lots of good news like 200 bug fixes and some extras, but mention of the big bugs (clipping through walls for example) is completely avoided.

Most of us would be a lot quieter PROVIDED we are kept updated properly.

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In no way do I support a low standard. But I also do not support needless shaming and continuous pointless rants about how the devs screwed up. I agree, in reality most players don’t carefully examine what they are buying, instead they just buy it on a whim. I fall for that too sometimes. What I’m saying is that people should be more responsible with how they spend their money. If they hadn’t bought the game then they wouldn’t have gone into the forums and post about how the game was trash. My main issue with all the complaints surfacing after the May update isn’t that they are all unfounded. It’s that they all fail to consider that the devs are human like them, and aren’t some magical forces out there that could fix everything in a month but chose not to. To be human is to constantly fail to meet standards. I’m not supporting lower ones, because high standards push people to their limits and they grow, but if people fail to meet a standard they shouldn’t be attacked so caustically. Also, as stated before, gen zero was their passion project and I would think it would be completely understandable for them to be excited enough with the game that they would rush it out the day before it was completely finished.

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You say the devs are going half assed, yet like the original post said it’s a passion project

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Companies dont generally charge money for passion projects and if they do, then the people who have bought into the “project” are kept abreast of any and all changes, fixes, modifications or updates that going into said project in real time.

All people want is transparency and for the game to be focused on the relevant issues. There should be absolutely no new content as far as bots, locations, weapons are concerned.

They need squash all the bugs first, next add the much needed quality of life features, like storage and crafting into the game. Once all of that is stable in 6 months or so, then they can focus themselves on adding new content.

I would love to play this game, it is everything I wanted and for the first 2 weeks it was out it was great. Then I hit my first broken mission, then the update happened and all the adrenaline shots were taken away. Next update increased damage of all bots and removed all stats from clothing. The new update adds the stats back to clothing but only register at 0% in its effectiveness. Then they upped the damage of all bots and removed health packs. They also did not actually fix anything listed. The only things that work in the patch notes was the newly added items to the starter area. Now solo play is completely impossible and no longer playable.

Example: see the Subnautica Development cycle for an example of a very successful passion project.

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So now they’ve been called out quite vocally for shoddy DEV and QA pipelines, and after running betas for the pre-release game, and after 18gb of updates that have fixed nothing major, but have now totally screwed the overall game on PS4… you’re now going for the “it’s a passion project” defence?

Sorry while I ROFL for bit.

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While I disagree with some of the statements it has to be faced that it looks as if negligible testing took place (and I think I’m being charitable)

There are items that every platform has had from day one and two months on they are no better and for some platforms they are considerably worse now.

I have worked in the games industry (hand optimising code for a variety of publishers) and due to having young kids I left to work in the regular IT industry as “crunch time” simply became unacceptable.

However this is one of the few examples that I can think of where each update has brought deterioration.

I do think that some people are being overly negative about things such as the changed starting area (that will be the level design guys that did that rather than the programmers)

But it strikes me that the background processes are not working as they should be.

I hope there is effort putting workable processes to prioritise issues, assign tasks, create fixes, test the fixes and then communicate what is and isn’t going to happen to the customers.

Currently this appears to be broken (and probably magnifying the teams workload and stress) but in the end a lot of people have paid for something that seems to have got worse.

Personally I suspect the real issue is a process issue within the company rather than ability, intent or lack of interest in the customer.

When people complain they are (usually) giving the other party a chance to rectify the issue

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I understand that there are bugs (I’m a PS4 player myself and we can’t even get into the game) but enjoy the game for what it is I honestly enjoy the game it’s so fun to play and it’s enjoyable I especially love the bug where enemies walk through the walls it gets me cracking up every time but again I’m not defending the game because of the bug because they do have bugs and many of them BUT I’m having fun even with them enjoy the game with the bugs and wait for them to fix it little by little

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First, off: it doesn’t really matter what people want. This isn’t your game, it’s theirs. They don’t need to do anything for you. They owe you nothing.
Secondly: Even though they owe you nothing they still tried their best to give you something. They’re working hard on bug fixes (they don’t happen overnight) and on making the game better in general. Yes, they’ve made mistakes along the way, but they’re trying. So given that they owe you nothing but are trying to give you something, I would think that they would deserve a bit more respect than what they are currently receiving.
Also, passion projects can be successful, and they can also flop. I don’t think it’s fair to compare projects to each other based on how successful they are, as it’s just not fair and depends entirely on personal opinion and preference.
We all agree that the updates and patches have messed up the game, but that’s not the point. The point is that the devs deserve much more respect for this project than they are currently getting.

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I spent my hard earned money on a product three days ago that basically doesn’t turn on. You’re telling me that you wouldn’t be complaining? “Just have faith, everybody makes mistakes!”

That’s when you take the product back and buy something else.

A company that sells something does indeed owe something to their customers: that the thing being sold is accurately represented as what it’s advertised as. I bought a game, not a title screen simulator. Passion be damned - if you have a passion for your restaurant but keep serving raw chicken, you need to either hire some new chefs or give refunds and close the door.

To the OP: “You bought the game. You spent forty dollars on it. That’s not a decision that should have been made on a whim. It should have been thought OUT. The devs didn’t force you to buy the game. You chose.”

Again, that’s under the assumption that I bought a working product. I might as well have bought the empty box, considering what it does now.

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I only bought the game just over a week ago, So I could of been in the position you are if i’d Bought it a week later. I would be pissed!
I’ve loved nearly every minute of the game and the world they have created, But they do owe us all a working game, And the ability to play and save offline on ps4.
Put it to one side and come back to it, Because it is a good game and worth your hard earned cash.
All the best

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They do owe me. I gave them money. We all gave them money. They owe me everything. They owe all people who bought this game. So please step off your high horse and get a grip. The game was playable at launch. The game is broken now. How would you like it if you bought a car and then 4 weeks after you bought it the dealership shows up at your house takes the cars engine and they all take turns pissing on you car seats?

Your logic holds no water and your arguments.

Finally this is not a project. This is a product. A product is something you pay money for in order to utilize it in some manner.

Now if this had been an “early Access” purchase this could argument could be made. Early Access backers are used to support the team in the games creation. This game was a full release.

Respect can be earned and lost depending on the situation. The game worked at launch it does not now and has not worked correctly 3 weeks after its launch. We have since had a whole month where we were told that these would be fixed. The patch came and the game is broke even harder.

Respect lost!

So I owe them nothing at this point, I was positive for long enough. I want the working product I paid for. The fact that people are still on this forum posting shows that there is huge interest in this games success. So before you try and force you illogical emotion based opinions on anyone else, understand that when money changes hands its a contract that the product you have provided has value. This game has lost its value and worse it lost its value for no reason.

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You’ve lost respect for another human being over a game? Over roughly forty dollars? Failed expectations can be hard to take yes, but everyone on this forum seems to be forgetting that these people are just human, and deserve just as much respect as you do. I honestly don’t care that I can’t play the game anymore. I enjoyed it while it lasted. I do care about the devs and the team at Avalanche because they are human. I don’t care about the bugs. I do care that the community is making the creators of the game feel like trash for practically no reason at all.

This game isn’t as expensive or important as a car. Yes it was advertised as a finished product, and has earth-shattering bugs. It’s just another of countless mistake that people are possible of making. It’s not worth all the crap that’s being given. And no, when money changes hands there is no contract implied. The only contract existing is that you value the thing you are receiving as much as or more than the thing you are giving away. For some people they no longer wish to give the money away, but it’s too late.

I’m not saying people can’t regret decisions. They just shouldn’t whine about it all day. I agree, the game has lost it’s value, and that can be disappointing. But the fall of gen zero is honestly just the fall of yet another game. A unique one yes, but still just a game. Get your priorities straight. The devs are human, made a lot of mistakes on a game. They still deserve to be treated as human beings, not as a scapegoat for your disappointment. A video game dying is nowhere near significant as the lives and emotions of the people at Avalanche. I don’t care if it sounds sentimental and stupid. People are more important then video games.

I do agree that there were monumental mistakes in the releasing the game as a finished project, the apparent lack of testing, and the numerous bugs. All these plus the money spent is a huge disappointment. But I doubt that you’ll look back at your life and see generation zero as the cause of all your suffering. In the long run this game is not important, this post is not important, the only important things here are the people on the other side of the screen. You. Me. the devs and everyone at Avalanche who’s reading the comments posted on the forum.

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Alrighty.
This thread is going to be locked. I’m perfectly fine with people expressing their thoughts and opinions. However at this point I think it has been made clear what everyone thinks.This conversation is no longer productive, it’s like watching a civil war. We need to remember we’re a community, A COMMUNITY we are in this together. There is no need to go try change another persons opinion because it is just that… an opinion. I’d like to add though that the devs have been working hard and constantly keeping you guys updated and transparent. Thank you for the continued support, we’re in this together. :slight_smile:

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