Gas masks need to be revamped

[Hogge]

In games, you can always play around with the numbers. They could just cap gas resistance at 95% and call it a day.

Well, of course, it’s a matter of how aggressive the corrosive nature of the gas in question is. But if we’re to speak of chemical warfare agents which have actually been used, like mustard or chlorine gas, then those don’t literally corrode your arms and legs off. It gives you severe burns and nasty wounds, as well as being painful. You need a LOT of exposure for it to kill you, while mild exposure might only cause you discomfort.
Your eyes and lungs are however MUCH more sensitive. One might lose eye sight virtually instantly, making it impossible for soldiers to escape. That’s before you take into consideration that even mild exposure will cause the lung to bleed, making said person basically drown in their own blood.
Thus: no mask and you’re dead in seconds. A mask and you have maybe a minute or more.

So yes, for any type of CBRN agent, a mask will give you a significantly increased chance of survival. There is of course the debate of whether you’d have a life worth living afterwards, but since this is just a fun game, I don’t think we should get into that.

[Aesyle]

Since i’m not a real life chemist, i don’t know the minute details of chemical warfare and how it is IRL. What i know, is how gasses work in GZ and i still don’t see why the gas resistance needs to be increased.

Recap:

• Gas resistance is the highest in-game, compared to the other resistances.

• Gas isn’t the most wide spread/primary damaging element in the game.
  In my game, #1 is Bullets and #2 is Explosives.

• You can easily run out from the machine deployed gas clouds.
  It’s not so easy to dodge bullets/rockets.

• Gas damage is low, only few HP per tick.
  It’s not like it’s 20 HP per tick (which at one point was in the game but was nerfed/patched out.)

• In bunkers, gas is contained only in few rooms, giving you plenty of time to equip the gas mask.
  And if you sprint through the room, you can clear it within seconds.

So, remind me again, as of why the gas resistance value needs to be increased?
Is it because, you, deliberately, put yourself into a bad situation where you will be getting gas damage at extended periods of time and refuse to do little, if any, to escape from the gas to save your life?

[Mr_A1992]

Gas resistance does not need to be increased.
The gas resistance from MASKS needs to be increased.

At least the “yellow gas” and the “white gas” from Hunters (which looks like tear gas) are not corrosive, a proper mask can protect the player from it.
Obviously for balance purposes the player should not be immune forever to the gas, but at least 1 or 2 minutes of protection should be how it works.

It is not game-breaking yes, but if masks exist on the game they should work as they work on real life and other video games, instead they do almost nothing.

It´s a matter of purpose and utility, as of now using masks with the purpose of protection is not worth it, anyone is better using only first aid kits and no mask, instead of having a mask equipped and use also first aid kits.

The only good thing about them is that they do look cool and even limit the visibility which is interestingly realistic

[Hogge]

Like Mr_A1992 mentioned, gas damage could be increased to balance things out.

As is right now, masks are implemented in a way that they ad nothing to the player experience, except annoying the user base.

[Fwerkie]

Also, Aesyle, one thing that you are forgetting about is that because the gas can go clear through walls, (and there are several machines that can launch gas) you can get pinned down in a house that is virtually filled to the brim with gas. So your choice is pretty much die in the house (if the gas/bots have already drained you of health packs) or be driven out and be killed by heavy fire. So, Yes, gas resistance must be increased, but for the mask, not the people. Preferably 100% gas protection, but for a limited amount of time.

[Aesyle]

@Mr_A1992

but at least 1 or 2 minutes of protection should be how it works.

With that, you’d be immune to almost all gas attacks from machines (except apo harv) since those only last for 20 seconds. Might as well remove the gas all together from the game.

@Mr_A1992

as they work on real life

There are plethora of things that doesn’t work in-game as they work IRL. Another example, good one, is ballistic armor. We have several apparel pieces that have ballistic armor in them, yet, none of them offer any protection against bullets/explosives.

And while there are some who have asked for bullet proof vests and the like (e.g Bullet proof vest ), that discussion is nowhere as flamboyant as is the gas mask discussion.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the ballistic armor also gives players 1-2 mins of immunity to the bullets? Especially since bullets is the main/biggest source of damage in GZ.

@Fwerkie

you can get pinned down in a house that is virtually filled to the brim with gas

I often battle from the inside of the house and when you’re in a smaller house, it may seem that hunter gas attack encompasses the entire house, but i’ve always found a small spot or corner where the gas doesn’t reach. Also, gas doesn’t travel up/down from stairs. So, when upper floor gets gassed, i go down and vice-versa.
Though, harv gas dispenser has far greater range and if harv is literally next to the wall of a house, it can gas the entire house. Then again, harv doesn’t walk next to a house, unless you deliberately aggo it to slowly come to you, once its rockets are taken out.

Though, against gas - medical first aid kit. ← that piece of gear will give you fast HP regen for the duration of 15 seconds. Once you get hit by the gas and by the time you switch to it and consume one, it will keep you alive during the gas damage intake. And it will last the same amount of time as the gas cloud itself.

On Guerilla, it will heal you exactly the same amount as you’d be taking damage without gas mask. On lower difficulty, it even outheals the gas damage, making you essentially immune to the gas.

---

So far, i haven’t seen any real reason of why to increase the gas resistance give players gas immunity.

One argument presented was comparison to the real life, but if we are really going to turn the reality knob up, i’d also expect all the weapons to weigh as their real life counterparts weigh, not the measly 2 kg per weapon. Or realistic amount of weight that you can carry, ~30 kg. Not the 96 kg as you currently can + sprint with all that weight as well.

What devs could do, is removing the gas mask from the Apparel section and make it consumable item, that you can find from the world. And once activated, the mask is put on and it has short duration until it is “consumed” completely. After which, you need to activate another gas mask, if you have 2nd one. If not, tough luck.

[Fwerkie]

@Aesyle

With that, you’d be immune to almost all gas attacks from machines (except apo harv) since those only last for 20 seconds.

Might as well remove the gas all together from the game.

Your idea not mine.

I don’t see how one to two minutes of protection would make you immune to gas. Your only immune for one to two minutes.

@Aesyle

What devs could do, is removing the gas mask from the Apparel section and make it consumable item, that you can find from the world. And once activated, the mask is put on and it has short duration until it is “consumed” completely. After which, you need to activate another gas mask, if you have 2nd one. If not, tough luck.

That’s literally what we have been saying. In fact I even said myself that gas masks should be moved into the consumable slot. And Mr_A1992 even offered the idea of making the gas masks last 1-2 minutes, and then stop working/needing to be replaced.

So you essentially took both of our ideas, said they were bad, then said the same thing yourself, and said it was a good idea.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the ballistic armor also gives players 1-2 mins of immunity to the bullets?
[/quote]

Well, thats how all ballistic armor works. It’s durability is not infinite, so it makes sense that it would on only last for a small amount of time.

[Mr_A1992]

Do you need extensive explanations to understand everything?

@Aesyle

With that, you’d be immune to almost all gas attacks from machines (except apo harv) since those only last for 20 seconds. Might as well remove the gas all together from the game.

APOC Harvester and Reaper toxic gas from attacks are corrosive in nature, so the mask would not work, i did not mention them on purpose.

@Aesyle

What devs could do, is removing the gas mask from the Apparel section and make it consumable item, that you can find from the world. And once activated, the mask is put on and it has short duration until it is “consumed” completely

That would be the final purpose of all of this discussion.
Not total immunity from the gas, a temporary immunity while using the mask, after the timer reaches zero, we would need a new mask or need to wait some minutes till the mask is functional again.

It would be optional to use the mask, and it diminishes the visibility as we all know it so it´s not that perfect as you may think.
Seems fairly standard request from me and other users, it will not make the game easier.

@Aesyle

Wouldn’t it be nice if the ballistic armor also gives players 1-2 mins of immunity to the bullets? Especially since bullets is the main/biggest source of damage in GZ.

Who asked for such thing?
It would be horrible having immunity from bullets, that is perfect nonsense.
And certainly i have not said anything about that.
A bullet proof vest could add some percentage of protection till it took some damage and became useless, that we could have, it exists in other games, it would not grant any kind of immunity because once it is destroyed you no longer have the extended protection and you no longer have a vest, requiring new vest to be crafted, bought, found.

[Mr_A1992]

@Fwerkie

That’s literally what we have been saying. In fact I even said myself that gas masks should be moved into the consumable slot. And Mr_A1992 even offered the idea of making the gas masks last 1-2 minutes, and then stop working/needing to be replaced.

So you essentially took both of our ideas, said they were bad, then said the same thing yourself, and said it was a good idea.

Yup pretty much that, normal and direct requests as ours were transformed in a confusion without any need for it

[Dafydd]

Sorry to necropost, but…

Ex. A gas-mask with 20% resistance + Chemist (10%) + Amor L3 (10%) + Vanguard (25%) = 1 - (0.8 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.75) = 51.4 % total resistance

Does this mean poison gas will now kill me in 8 seconds instead of 4 seconds?

[Fwerkie]

Well, although that is true, it’s not really what we’re getting at. 51.4 percent protection is pretty good, not gonna argue with that. However, that’s assuming you have picked a specific specialization, among other things. What if somebody wants to specialize in different things? Not to mention, in real life, although they wear out after a while, real masks completely protect you, then begin to lose their effectiveness over time. So, I offer a compromise.

1. We make masks require filters, which can be found around the map, and equipped. These would last a maximum of let’s say 2 or 3 minutes. After which, you begin to lose health. 100% protection while filter is active.

2. Masks themselves have to be replaced every 2 or 3 minutes ( this would become frustrating much faster than option 1 in my opinion). 100% protection until fully used.

3. Masks lose effectiveness the longer they are used. In other words, at first, you get 100% protection, but after allotted time, they begin to protect you less, and less, until you might as well not even be wearing one. This is sort of a mix of option 1 and 2. Replacing the whole mask or replacing just the filter is debatable for this one.

[Klami3sz]

Since there are already multiple topics when it comes to Gas Masks I will share my idea here.

---

Idea:

As we all know currently Gas Mask provide +20% Gas Resistance with additional screen shading to imitate wearing it.

+20% Gas Resistance equal to 2 skill points: Chemist (10%) + Armor L3 (10%)

I propose to buff Gas Mask resistance to 30-40% but cause it to lower stamina by 12.5%, stamina recharge by 10% and to narrow field of view by 2-3 in game points.

Details:

+25% stamina equal to 1 skill point: Stamina Amount skill
20% faster recharge as well 1 skill point: Stamina Recharge skill
Thus -12.5% stamina with 10% slower recharge is more or less 1 skill point

+30-40% resistance end up being 3-4 skill points

Justification:

• currently one can wear Gas Mask indefinitely as it provide almost no drawback. You can run as good with it like without it. If it will lower stamina and its recharge there will be incentive to remove it and use only when needed.

• narrower field of view is another, to current shading, way to imitate “feeling” of wearing gas mask: 2-3 points is not much, but is still noticeable

• to improve Gas Mask effectiveness in situations that calls for this item I propose to buff its Resistance to 30-40%

Advantages of this is change:

• improves effectiveness of this item but still not make it “best in slot” by including drawback when using.
• improves immersion
• utilize existing in-game features and mechanics - field of view setting, stamina and recharge rate multiplier (here it would apply negative multiplier).

---

If someone has other point of view or recognize important drawbacks of this idea please share it.

This is obviously just an idea like many other, not a request in any form and even if received positively I don’t think it should be high on to-do list.

[Gysbert]

Have you considered that not all gasses do just damage by inhaling. There are gasses like Mustard gas that does damage through the skin.

I don’t know if we know what kind of gas the player is exposed to in GZ. It’s mostly yellow gas we see, and in industrial areas we find tanks that have markings of Poison Class 4 gas & Giftgas. It’s unclear if either these gasses damage through skin as well as the respiratory system.

[Klami3sz]

@Gysbert

if we know what kind of gas the player is exposed to in GZ. It’s mostly yellow gas we see, and in industrial areas we find tanks that have markings of Poison Class 4 gas & gift gas. It’s unclear if either these gasses damage through skin as well as the respiratory system.

I did not but going back to my idea neither I see it is relevant to consider.
To avoid replying to assumed by me your intentions better tell what have you in mind Gysbert?

[JuanEyeJack]

Since we find compressed air tanks in game maybe make the masks craft-able with a short air supply. Since it is a craft-able item then schematics need to be found and used and just like apparel, craft-able up to level 5.

I think there are a few different gases in the game. purple, yellow and near invisible the apoc ticks, runners and who know what else uses. But a air supply would cover all the breathable gases without the need of different filters

[Gysbert]

I just wanted to say that the gas mask might not be faulty, and in need of a buff. Part of the damage can be from skin absorption. We don’t know.
The gas in the game makes fighting some enemies harder, and rooms more difficult to search. Just as it is supposed to be.

[Gysbert]

@JuanEyeJack

I think there are a few different gases in the game. purple, yellow and near invisible the apoc ticks, runners and who know what else uses.

Yes, of course, forgot about those gasses.

@Klami3sz

I did not but going back to my idea neither I see it is relevant to consider.

Reading back I see my reaction is indeed not really relevant to your idea. Sorry about that.

[Klami3sz]

In all fairness I’m not strongly advocating for resistance buff, yet applying two other things I mentioned without any form of a buff seems ideal recipe for a public rant.

I do think that mask, in current form, when you can wear it indefinitely, could be improved around its statistics to still very much hold its value, but also to provide incentive to not have it = your field of view is just a touch bigger and you can run bit further.
And this without time consuming form of additional in-game mechanic introduction like mentioned replaceable filters/canisters or complete overhaul of the way how mask work (what would require to balance everything else).

[ObligatedRug050]

Only reason I’m not using gas masks at all is that you can’t put them in a button/wheel slot for easy access.

Shouldn’t this possible?

[Madchaser]

Not as long as it’s a clothing.
I would prefer this, too.

Gas masks should be an item like binoculars.
But these two should be moved to fixed buttons (like the flashlights) instead of blocking a place on the weapon-wheel if you want to use them.
Dpad up and down are currently unused.

There should be different qualities (and maybe colors) of binoculars and gas masks (ok, different colors for that already are there).
The gas masks should work like flashlights, which you can switch on or off by pressing the button and where you are able to use other items/weapons, too.

But they could also have an attachment slot for filter-upgrades, like the binoculars have a slot for vision modules.