Machine behaviour post April 2020 update

Another merge.

//Mod

Okay, I know most are going to disagree with what I’m going to post, but what comes next is my experience (your experience may vary! :grimacing:)

IMHO Gen Zero is a FAR better game since the update.

My brother and I play 2-p Co-op with characters from 6-22 levels.

Here’s what we like about the changes:

  1. now we’ve got to hit mechs from a distance, especially the Harvs.
  2. now we’ve got to be smart. Can’t rush into battles. We plan each encounter, who marks, who uses flares/emps/fireworks, who has the rocket launcher, who might use the .50pvg, who will draw attention and who will flank, etc.
  3. and if overwhelmed, we’ve got to run, throw distractions and find new positions.

As an example, We’ve slowly wiped out near the airbase entrance 4x harvs/tanks and all their hunters/runners by methodically calling out targets, hitting from range, moving positions, etc. It took maybe an hour…but man was it fun to peck off those enemies in 1s and 2s.

Today we encountered 2x FNIX harvs and 12x hunts/runs by a farm. Lured out the small fry, sniped at hunts as they lobbed gas/missiles/etc and then sniped one Harv from over 2km (it never shot back) and then got the other at point-blank range: I threw small emps and used a shotgun and my bro hit it with auto fire. It didn’t even stand a chance as it was emped the whole time!

Other times we have to just avoid conflict until the mechs move away. Hey thats good too. Feel like we get rewarded when we then walk into an (almost) empty area.

This isn’t me bragging, this is just why we like the game: it feels like real combat where being smart and prepared is rewarded; rushing in is penalized.

It’s clear that many others disagree with my assessment, but I just figured I’d throw it out there. :grimacing:

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Agreed 100%, the game is way more rewarding now that the mittens are off.

If they manage to remove some of the bugs, like the gas spread and sniping through walls thingy, then this is definitely the level of AI difficulty this game needs.

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Spot on! :+1:

If only everybody would understand that.

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You dont say how you play against harvesters spawning too many hunters in single player and being low level like 15…

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I definitely understand that, and I think such mechanics and gameplay is what the hardest difficulty should play like. It allows players to select if they want a visceral and strategic combat experience. Rather than re-work combat entirely I think altering the difficulty levels to fit more ways to play the game might be a better method. It would allow players to rush if that is what they wished from a game about fighting robots, while also allowing an option for players who would rather be strategic. It suits more play-styles and probably makes both parties as happy as they can be. At the end of the day, any video-game receives complaints. Some people cannot be satisfied :frowning:

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Hi. Just took down a prototype Harv with my level 9 character. Snuck up, used small emp, fired auto, used emp, repeated till it died.

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** disclaimer ** I personally don’t mind the difficulty hike, but I’m a long-time player with multiple level 31 chars.

However, the way I see it, the difficulty is fundamentally broken and I can’t possibly see how anyone can argue otherwise. Whether or not you prefer it, or think it’s fine, ask yourself this;

Does the current ‘Adventure’ difficulty gameplay match the difficulty description; ‘This difficulty is intended for players wanting to focus on the story and exploration rather than on combat’

I fail to see how ‘players should just plan better & learn the nuances of the AI etc.’ equates with not having to focus on combat and just enjoying the exploration.

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The difficulty doesn’t bother me, it’s all the bugs with the enemy weapons and AI that boils my urine.

Even if the game doesn’t have the AI bug that makes many machines hellbent on killing you, e.g pre-April '20 update - even then the difficulty description doesn’t match the difficulty level.

Learning the tactics of machines doesn’t make what you’re doing focusing on combat.

Machine blueprints, learning machine weakpoints, machine limitations, your weapons and best use of them - everything that includes about how to take out machines, are focusing on combat.

Planning, scouting the area, learning machine patrol routes, their blind spots, sounds they make, sound direction - everything that includes about how to avoid machines, are focusing on stealth/survival.

So, when playing on Adventurer, no-one is forcing you to attack machines and walk around like you’re blind and deaf. It’s every player’s own decision how oblivious they want to be. It’s not the game’s job to make the journey on Adventurer difficulty as easy as possible. Since if it were, there wouldn’t be any machines in Adventurer difficulty.

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Except for it kind of is, otherwise why include them at all. That’s kind of the whole point of difficulty levels & accessibility. They introduced them as a way to make the game more accessible for those finding it tough, with a hard mode for those wanting a challenge.

Noone’s forcing anyone to play ‘Adventure’. The way I see it, easy, should be just that, and I don’t see why people get defensive about an easy mode. The more people enjoying the game the better. Who cares if someone else is playing it on easy if you’re enjoying it your way.

If people find it too easy, then they should scale the difficulty up. I don’t have a problem with the current difficulty level myself and I rather enjoy the challenge. However I’m aware that not everyone does and I feel that (post April update) the Adventure setting is broken.

Personally, I thought the OG difficulty (prior to the introduction of the difficulty levels) was pretty much spot on solo, although the Exp weapons needed adjusting as they could make everything short of APOC enemies trivial.

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@Aesyle, have you ever played any other games?

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The one difficulty level we had before was hard on new players and easy for veterans, so, per player base request, difficulty was split to three.

If the post-April '20 update AI bug is removed, is there for us anything to talk about Adventurer difficulty? :thinking:

It’s not only the difficulty level alone that determinates if the game you play is going to be easy or hard. For example, running in guns blazing without paying any attention what is going on around you can make a lot harder game on Adventurer difficulty than planning your attack and being constantly aware on Guerilla difficulty.

I have. Why ask it?

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No good reason. I was being deliberately sarcastic. But without the sarcasm, you seem to be deliberately obtuse about the current state of the game. What exactly is wrong with people playing a game how they might like it? Why can’t the game be easy for those who want it easy?

I played for 2 hours last night and it was a miserable experience. There was a tank coming and I was not prepared for it so I went into a barn. And then before I knew what happened all hell let loose. I was stuck in the barn and was constantly spammed by a never ending “infinite ammo” stream of gas and rockets at one of the doors. At the other end and door I was torn to pieces by tanks. I could only run about 25 yards from the middle door before the never ending stream of hunters got me. Fast travelling away seems like cheating… Eventually I got out and was sprinting across a field thinking I was a good safe distance away, but then bang, down I went.

I quit at that point.

If I have to wander around avoiding all conflict, what’s the point of the game?

“If the post-April '20 update AI bug is removed, is there for us anything to talk about Adventurer difficulty?” - I’ll probably agree with you on that.

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GZ can be played on many different ways while the game is designed for guerilla tactics and for that reason, not all gameplay styles offer the same level of difficulty. You want to run & gun? Feel free. Will game be easy then? No. GZ isn’t run & gun game.

Isn’t that the point of Adventure difficulty, where you wander around avoiding conflict? And when you happen to be in combat, it’s easier than on other difficulties.

Why is everyone talking about difficulty? It is super obvious this is a bug issue. I am sure they did not mean to have the robots be able to shoot over 1 kilometers and through buildings etc. or when you fast travel to get detected from out side by a pack of robot 600 meters away you never saw before. Or the rocket spam you have no clue where it is coming from because they are three hills over and you do not get a direction of impact.

They are meant to chase and flank you. They use normal military tactics when they are not bugged. They attempt to close with and destroy when not glitched seeing you through terrain.

I think something more useful would be making a list of the things that are bugged so the devs can get to work on those not arguing about difficulty as that is not an issue right now.

I would say as of now.

Range detection is broken, they detect you anywhere from 1M to 1KM seems random.

Noise is probably equally broken hard to tell since they see you not matter what.

Sight is broken sometimes they see you when you are inside not moving,( not counting scanning the build ) just off in the wood then bam that building over there lock on and start shooting even is there is no target.

Bullets and terrain- sometimes buildings/hills stop bullets sometimes bullets just find you no matter what.

Rocket spam, sometimes they fire in salvos giving you a chance to move into cover and sprint from cover to cover. Sometimes it is endless no break just continuous non-stop rockets

Hacked behavior is broken, they do not even attempt to attack robots when skills are leveled up

Hunter shoulder rockets give no trail or no shot animation just explosions where they land So you have no clue where they are coming from or what robot is shooting it even when looking at the robot in question.

I have noticed that in multiplayer, sometimes the game functions correctly in terms of sounds and sight detection for 1 player and not the rest even if all have the same specs. Example of two players right next to each other both maxed stealth one will enter combat and be attacked the other will be ignored until they shoot and if they choose can sit out of combat.

I enjoy the new update, the only problem i have is with apoc. Hunters. The missile instagib u with almost no warning, and WHY IS FLAMETHROWER RANGE SO LONG! I think everything else’s is A ok, but the last ones should not be happening on the easiest difficulty.

I agree, the flamethrower range could be reduced

Rocket spam and hunter explosive bolts (aka) Getting knocked down, over and over and over and over and over, not fun. I loved the game, But I’ve stopped playing since the update, (adventure mode) I personally think Pre-Update was better. A balanced thing that could happen was something like what Davidwum talked about in his post Changing the Enemies especially the Seekers giving the robots a accuracy boost if they “spot” you, that would give them a purpose and i feel like balance taking them out and not ignoring them.

-Update, I’ve tried playing the game again after the May 15th update. So much better! There is a little challenge, but much better! It’s fun again!

Except there was no update. The game hasn’t been changed since April 27th.

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