Storage box size

[Liquidgoose]

your definetly on to something👍🏻

[knobitobi]

@DoomsDream

A correct implementation of the plundra would cost max 16 bytes per object you store.

Where did you get this number?

@DoomsDream

That would give you the possibility to store 18446744073709551615 items of any given sort, which is kind of overkill

Now I’m really wondering where you get all the numbers? Can you enlighten me please?

@DoomsDream

And one could also argue that why shouldn’t one be able to store every epic weapon one finds? Since they spent the hours to get them?

Really? Why do you want to store every weapon you find? Why do you want to store 537th 1* Möller? Sorry, but this sounds very silly and this is a very weak argument to open the limits.

I totally get that a bit more storage with the increased weapon and ammo type count makes sense and working for this kind of increase has a rewarding factor. Let’s say - for the sake of the argument - the devs implement a system where the player can increase the storage 5 times (to stay in the 1 to 5 crown systematic) in 50kg increments. This would give the player a 450kg storage capacity which is more then double the player has at the moment. For me this is way too much but I hope this would suffice for you.

[Gysbert]

Perhaps earn/buy bigger storage with Prestige Points. Like 81 points for 11 kg.

[Mr_A1992]

With the introduction of new ammo types and many new DLC weapons, the storage needs some adjustment, requiring a bit more of space to keep pace with the new introductions.
It would be very appreciated by many if it the storage was extended.
And of course Balance is key, unlimited storage would feel just wrong and weird.
I hope the Team will come with some solution for this .

[Liquidgoose]

@Aesyle

That is complete guesswork. Most GZ players are from Sweden, rather than from open world gaming scene.

May not be related, but once again ive done a poll on reddit in regards to the Plundra. As of this post it has only been 2 hours and here are the result. image|281x499 By no means are the devs obliged to add unlimited storage/increased storage, but the numbers speak for it self. More active useres on reddit than on the forums.

[Liquidgoose]

I second this aswell. Although unlimited may not be neccessary, but a good, healthy boost to the Plundra’s capacity will definetly be appreciated by the players.

[Liquidgoose]

@knobitobi

Do you know how software and files work? Imagine having to upgrade your hardware just to accommodate just to play this game because it requires unlimited RAM, harddrive space and processing power. As it is now the saving works flawlessly. It runs in the background without interfering with the gameplay.

I am by no means a computer programmer or game programmer, i dont know Java, Java script, C++ or Python. But one thing i have done is play a wide veriaty of games to know that you havent played alot of games. Take a older open world game for example, Fallout 3, go to any container in the game and try fitting every item in that same container and tell me if your game works fine. Fallout 3 runs on the already dying Gamebryo engine and it can do it, i dont see why GZ’s Apex engine will have issues.

Need a better example? Try playing any of the Dark Souls games, Dark Souls also uses an auto save function with no manual saves. Everytime you store an item in UNLIMITED storage box, tell me if your game works fine. As ive mentioned im not programming wizkid, and feel free to enliten me, heck give me a full on lesson on programming if you have to. My guy, you need to expaned your gaming library.

[DoomsDream]

@knobitobi

Really? Why do you want to store every weapon you find? Why do you want to store 537th 1* Möller? Sorry, but this sounds very silly and this is a very weak argument to open the limits.

I think you missed the word epic. I didnt say every weapon you find.

@knobitobi

Where did you get this number?

I got it from thinking, with my knowledge of datascience to back me up. (University studies, as well as 20+ years in the business).

Typically you need one reference to the object, thats 8 bytes (long), and then you want to count how many of that you have, thats 8 more bytes. Unsigned long can represent any number from 0 to 18446744073709551615. Or so I thought. I was mistaken long long for a long. A normal long only has 4 bytes. So I guess the correct size if you only use longs are actually only 12 bytes (plus abit of overhead for actual object and array implementations) and would only suffice for 4294967295 objects storage per type. (tbh only 1 byte could be used, then you would be able to store a maximum of 255 objects per object type. I think that could suffice?)

Sizes of different datatypes can be found here:

https://os.mbed.com/users/mbed714/notebook/integer-types-int-long-and-long-long/

I actually thought I explained it pretty good in my previous post. (minus the errors… hmmm)

[DoomsDream]

I can buy that.

As long as there are ways to get it (preferably actually without spending skillpoints on it).

[knobitobi]

@Liquidgoose

Need a better example? Try playing any of the Dark Souls games, Dark Souls also uses an auto save function with no manual saves. Everytime you store an item in UNLIMITED storage box, tell me if your game works fine.

One Google search and I found this StackExchange thread about storage limitations in Dark Souls: dark souls - Is there a limit to the number of item in inventory? - Arqade Quote: “I’m currently studying the save file, and items start at offset 0x2e0 and end at offset 0xe2e0, which means there is 0xe000 items structures. Since there are 7 elements in this structure, there is a maximum of 0x2000 items, which is 8192” So even there is a maximum to items you can store.

@Liquidgoose

Take a older open world game for example, Fallout 3, go to any container in the game and try fitting every item in that same container and tell me if your game works fine. Fallout 3 runs on the already dying Gamebryo engine and it can do it, i dont see why GZ’s Apex engine will have issues.

Oh yes, the Fallout games without their limitations. This works in regular cases. But when you start gathering and storing lots and lots of things the file size grows quite large. I found an interesting piece where on describes for F:NV how to reduce the save file size since even when it’s just some MB it can result in freezes (https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:GUIDE:_Eliminate_PS3_RAM-related_freezes;_decrease_Save-Size.). True that this is about the elderly PS3 and newer hardware can surely cope with larger file sizes but even there will be the crashes when the file size gets out of hand for newer hardware.

And imagine how long it would take if the file size gets in the range of 100 MB or even to the GB range. The devs cannot assume everyone has a M.2 drive. Regular SSDs still have that 600MB/s limit of the SATA port. And even then they regularly don’t achieve that as a writing speed (SSD Performance Review - 270TB Written | StorageReview.com).

@DoomsDream

Typically you need one reference to the object, thats 8 bytes (long), and then you want to count how many of that you have, thats 8 more bytes. Unsigned long can represent any number from 0 to 18446744073709551615.

Got you. I know it as BigInt but never used it since in my programming days I never came even close to such a large number. In that case the game would need a real database server optimized for large amounts of data.
Why I think there needs to be a reasonable limit is that using a 1 byte type (to me known as Int) you could have a file size of up to 4 GB for the reference only. I don’t know any system that can handle those large data in such a manner that it wouldn’t interfere with the gameplay.

[Liquidgoose]

@knobitobi

One Google search and I found this StackExchange thread about storage limitations in Dark Souls: dark souls - Is there a limit to the number of item in inventory? - Arqade Quote: “I’m currently studying the save file, and items start at offset 0x2e0 and end at offset 0xe2e0, which means there is 0xe000 items structures. Since there are 7 elements in this structure, there is a maximum of 0x2000 items, which is 8192” So even there is a maximum to items you can store.

As i have mentioned, im not expert. And to be very honest, nothing you say here makes sense to me. But ive put in hundreds of hours in both games (Dark souls1,2,3 and FO3,FNV,FO4) and manage to store many items in a single storage and my game runs smoothly.

Ive played ive played all the Dark souls games on console mind you, and not on a beefy gaming PC and it works fine. Ive played Fallout on both console aswell as on my non gaming laptop and it works fine, not to mention that i use alot of mods when playing on the PC. So my point still stands, If both Dark souls and Fallout(with mods) can run fine, i dont see any reason why GZ wont work. And like i mentioned im no programmer so whatever facts and numbers you pull up, dont expect me to understand them.

@knobitobi

imagine how long it would take if the file size gets in the range of 100 MB or even to the GB range. The devs cannot assume everyone has a M.2 drive. Regular SSDs still have that 600MB/s limit of the SATA port. And even then they regularly don’t achieve that as a writing speed (SSD Performance Review - 270TB Written | StorageReview.com).

Idk what kind of gaming rig you are using, but by the way you seem so bothered with storage and space that this feature will take up, you must be using some kind of lousy pc.

[knobitobi]

@Liquidgoose

And like i mentioned im no programmer so whatever facts and numbers you pull up, dont expect me to understand them.

@Liquidgoose

And to be very honest, nothing you say here makes sense to me.

Well in that case I let you live your life and don’t bother to discuss with you.

[Aesyle]

@Liquidgoose

but the point i wanted to make was that its not fair to call those types of players horders.

It comes down to how anyone perceives themselves.

I’m a collector and i can manage the 200 Plundra limit just fine, while housing all of my weapon collection, with plenty of room to spare. I gave the numbers above how much the perfect weapon collection takes up in Plundra.

However, those people who excessively save items (that others may view as worthless), where they have persistent difficulty getting rid of or parting with possessions, leading to a clutter that disrupts their ability to use their inventory, Plundra and Recycling Station space - are called hoarders.

Yes, i get it that its fun to collect all and store all. But at some point, limit should be drawn. In GZ, those limits are 96 (or 112.999) for inventory, 200 for Plundra and 250 for Recycling Station. And even in real life, you have limit on how much stuff you can collect. It’s mainly defined by the size of your dwelling but some folks have even rented storage/warehouse space to house their stuff.

As said by Zesiir:

@Zesiir

People will always request more regardless of how much space it has.

In that sense, it doesn’t matter if Plundra is 200 units, 1000 units, 5000 units etc. As long as there is a limit, people will meet that limit at some point and only way to house more stuff, is to ask for more space.

---

@Liquidgoose

As for extra chests, i was thinking that maybe unlike the plundra which has a linked storage, where you can go to any safehouse and still get take items that you stored at another safe house, these craftable boxes are not only smaller than the plundra, but you have to travel to where you built those boxes inorder to access them. Maybe for each safehouse/buildable base you can only craft a limited amount of these boxes. So if you were to go to another safehouse or buildable base, you could build more there. That way you could store items but you would have to travel to each base inorder to get them.

When Plundra was in development by the devs, devs did thought about keeping each Plundra contents individual. However, they soon realized that with 100+ safehouses in the game and same amount of Plundras as well, players will confuse/forget fast at which Plundra they stored the X item. So, to remove that confusion, devs made it so that every Plundra mirrors itself. And that is the sole reason why Plundra mirrors itself and isn’t standalone storage in each and every safehouse. A quality of life feature to say so.

This idea works only if there is 1 place where you can build those chests: Tylöveden Home Base. Since if you increase the amount of places where you can build those, the same issue comes back that devs circumvented when they introduced Plundra to the game.

@Liquidgoose

some larger more expensive to craft chests, being bigger than the plundra itself. That way instead of having an unlimited plundra, we get a craftable storage that is bigger than the plundra but more expensive to craft.

I get what you’re trying to achieve. You like to get considerably more storage space in the game than it currently is. That, personally, i’m not okay with.

To me, any additional, buildable storage chest, to keep the game balance, would only be limited to 20 units of space and you could build up to 5 of them in your Tylöveden Home Base. That would make a total of 100 units extra storage space, with a catch that machines can destroy them during the base defence mission, where you can loose everything that was stored in them at once.

But to entertain your idea, would the following be, what you’re asking about:
Build count: 1
Storage space: 500 units
Resource cost: 400 Aluminum, 200 Titanium, 100 Uranium

And that, of course with the same mechanic like all other base modules, where machines can damage and destroy it.

@Liquidgoose

May not be related, but once again ive done a poll on reddit in regards to the Plundra. As of this post it has only been 2 hours and here are the result.

You’ve posted that poll in a biased way, where it is more likely that people are voting “Yes” instead of a “No”.
The poll you made, is:

How many players want unlimited storage?

There seems to be many players on the GZ formus who are against this feature. So im curious to see if GZ subreddit feels the same way.

• Yes, that way i wont have to leave behind ammo
• No, it will make the game boring and dull

Calling a game “boring and dull” just because you can’t store past X amount of ammo is not a nice thing to do.
Moreover since unlimited Plundra, what you asked here for, has nothing to do with the ammo you collect from the world and carry with you. It’s your inventory limit that defines if you leave behind the looted ammo or not, to which you were okay with.

Btw, a proper poll isn’t biased. Example: Storage Capacity POLL

@Liquidgoose

but the numbers speak for it self

In Reddit, there is no limit on how many accounts single person can have. You don’t even need to have individual e-mails for individual accounts. This creates a situation where one person can have 500+ reddit accounts and can artificially skew any polls within Reddit.

With this, there is 0 credibility to any of the polls within Reddit and i don’t consider it as a valid statistics.

[Liquidgoose]

@Aesyle

You’ve posted that poll in a biased way, where it is more likely that people are voting “Yes” instead of a “No”.

How is that bias? It is a simple yes and no poll.

@Aesyle

Calling a game “boring and dull” just because you can’t store past X amount of ammo is not a nice thing to do.
Moreover since unlimited Plundra, what you asked here for, has nothing to do with the ammo you collect from the world and carry with you. It’s your inventory limit that defines if you leave behind the looted ammo or not, to which you were okay with.

Well mind you, the term i used “No, It will make the game dull and boring” is quoted from many players who are against having unlimited box space. Maybe english isnt your main language which is fine, but please do not twist my words just because your comprehension of english is not good.

@knobitobi

First and foremost they make the player think. Unlimited of everything makes a game dull

In my poll i am not saying that not saying that without the unlimited space that the game will be boring and dull. Im qouting what players who disagree with having an unlimited plundra would say.

@Aesyle

In Reddit, there is no limit on how many accounts single person can have. You don’t even need to have individual e-mails for individual accounts. This creates a situation where one person can have 500+ reddit accounts and can artificially skew any polls within Reddit.

With this, there is 0 credibility to any of the polls within Reddit and i don’t consider it as a valid statistics.

You cannot assume that everyone on reddit uses their alt accounts to vote on this poll. And what gives you the right to dictate what is credible and what is not credible? You are not the final authority on what is credible, so whether or not you think reddit is credible or not matters very little.

Lastly, this forum is a page for everyone to make bug reports and feature requests. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and thus you are free to disagree with having unlimited space. But what gives you the right to keep trying to shoot other peoples opinions down? If someone leaves their requests do you always have to reply trying to shoot them down? This is a page for players to voice out their opinions, and here you are acting high and mighty trying to silence other peoples requests. If you disagree you can just say that you disagree and leave it at that, and not constantly try to silence others.

[Liquidgoose]

Well if u must know how i play the game, here is my playstyle in a nutshell.

Primary: AG4 (4x scope, IR vision, ext mag, barrel extension) ammo type either AP or FMJ (depends on which i have more)

second: PVG50/Sjoqvist (pvg: 16x scope, ext mag. Sjoqvist: choke) ammo type for shotgun is either buck or slug

sidearm: baseball bat

So i go and play the game(do missions, hunt rivals ect.) and i hardly ever go back to plundra becuz i have lots of ammo to last me a long time. Whenever i do go back to the plundra, i drop any extra ammo off and head back out.

Some of the optional weapons i keep:

Granatgevar (only used for rival hunting)

Experimental klauke (i only keep 400 AP ammo for it)

So no, to clarify im not hording anything, i dont keep grenades,mines,firecracker,flares ect. Only medical items i use are medkits which i always carry with me, lock picks i also carry with me, about 10-20.

[Liquidgoose]

What baffels me is how players like you feel so opposed to an increase on storage. Please humor me abit, if lets say for example, if the devs added in unlimited/increased storage, how would it negatively effect you? If an unlimited/increased plundra were to be added, can you promise all of us that you swear you wont use the extra space?

And since having extra space in the storage wont negatively effect you, dont you think its selfish for you to not allow other player who want this feature to not have it? Because after all the players who want this feature will be negatively effected while on the other hand if this feature were to be added, players who want it will benefit while players who dont want it can simply just not use it. Its really that simple, and its not about making GZ to become like other games. Once again, as ive said to Aesyle, who are you to shoot down other peoples requests?

Anyways, enough has been said. It doesnt matter who is right or wrong, at the end of the day its all up to the devs what gets added and what doesnt get added into GZ. And i put full faith in them to meet a compromise to please everyone. This has been a very interesting discussion. Thank you for the memories.

[Aesyle]

@Liquidgoose

How is that bias?

It is biased because it makes the Yes option far more pleasing, while degrading the No option.

If it really is the simple Yes/No poll, then why add the line after Yes/No?

@Liquidgoose

Im qouting what players who disagree with having an unlimited plundra would say.

Well, you can’t speak for someone else. You can only speak for yourself. So, why would you go around saying: “this person said that” or “those people are saying this”?

@Liquidgoose

And what gives you the right to dictate what is credible and what is not credible? You are not the final authority on what is credible, so whether or not you think reddit is credible or not matters very little.

I shared my personal opinion of the Reddit poll and to me, it is not credible, which i also stated. Does my or your opinion in this case matter? Maybe. Maybe not. But in the end, it’s devs who decide if something comes or not. We, as players, can discuss the ideas, refine them, make them better. Speaking of it:

@Liquidgoose

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and thus you are free to disagree with having unlimited space. But what gives you the right to keep trying to shoot other peoples opinions down? If someone leaves their requests do you always have to reply trying to shoot them down? This is a page for players to voice out their opinions, and here you are acting high and mighty trying to silence other peoples requests. If you disagree you can just say that you disagree and leave it at that, and not constantly try to silence others.

Yes, everyone have the right for their opinion. You and me included.

This topic talks about Plundra increase and this is what we should be discussing here. Not attacking another person just because you don’t like they disagreeing with your idea. And not just the plain old “i disagree” but with explanation as of why i disagreed with one part of your idea.

Your asked unlimited storage space isn’t possible due to the software and hardware limitations. The technical explanation of it was shared here by @knobitobi, to which you dismissed as too complex to comprehend.
Even i don’t understand all the minute technicalities of programming, but me not understanding how something works, doesn’t make it invalid.

Then, you suggested a buildable chest within game world and to that i actually agreed with you. Given that it is balanced within game world. I also provided, based on my own opinion, the reasonable storage amount and other limitations it should have.

I even entertained your idea of bigger than Plundra storage box, that you can build in player base. By giving it the more than Plundra storage (which you asked for) with the expensive resource cost to build it (which you also talked about). I don’t see your response to it.

This is how discussion goes. One person brings out an argument and another person responds with counter-argument. But what i see, is you attacking me, without addressing the substance of the argument.

[Zesiir]

Let’s remember to keep things civil while posting. This includes avoiding making enormous, intimidating posts with walls of text. Not only does this discourage others from posting in the thread, it also blows up what is essentially just a case of disagreement.

I’ve already started to clean up in this thread. Agree to disagree, or I’ll have to use the big broom.

//Mod

[Liquidgoose]

Well, as ive said and this is the last time im going to say it. It doesnt matter who is right or wrong, at the end of the day it will be up to the devs what they wish to add in to the game. Let us all put our faith in them to make a choice that can hopefully benefit everyone. It has been a great discussion, best one ive been in for years, but for now lets let the devs do their magic and see what they do. For the mean time lets just continue to inform them about bugs and glitches.

Hopefully we have all learnt on how we can better ourselves through this discussion we have Once again thank you Devs for your hard work! And thank you to all for the wonderful experience.

[DoomsDream]

@knobitobi

Why I think there needs to be a reasonable limit is that using a 1 byte type (to me known as Int) you could have a file size of up to 4 GB for the reference only. I don’t know any system that can handle those large data in such a manner that it wouldn’t interfere with the gameplay.

Hmm you are completely missunderstanding what I am saying.

Lets say I want to store 4000 6 star PVG.

That would only take up 8 + 4 bytes = 12 bytes.

The 8 bytes reference the object (Experimental PVG), and the 4 bytes contains how many PVG’s we have stored (4000 of them).

Storing 6 star PVG and 5 star PVG = 24 bytes, etc etc.

File size is simply 12 times the number of different item types you store, not actual items.

Hence lets say there are 200 different item types in GZ. The filesize to store those items would be 200 * 12 = 2400 bytes which is less than 3Kb. and you can store up to 4294967295 of each item, and the filesize would not change.

thats right: you can store 429 MILLION 6 star PVG and another 429 MILLION 5 star PVG and file size would still be only 24 bytes.

So trust me, plundra does not take up any resources if implemented correctly.

(Disclaimer: The above reasoning assumes the inner state of the object to be stored is zero bytes, meaning it has no inner state. Inner state can be tear and wear, but also for instance which mods are attached to it. Depending on implementation this can be true, but in most cases this is false. In GZ it seems like the only objects with an inner state are ammo, and maybe magazines? (the number of bullets) so the zero innerstate approach is applicable here.)