Wear and tear - if you care

This has been discussed before. Here, here, and most recently here. But perhaps the introduction of more and more new weapons makes it more and more relevant. I was sparked by some comments from @Dantec in another thread, but moved the discussion here to keep the original tidy.

When presented with a choice of weapons, I by default chose the one that most effectively serve my needs. All other weapons thereby becomes irrelevant to me. If powerful weapons required more maintenance (crafting and resources) due to wear and tear, the other more robust weapons would become relevant to me again. So using experimentals would become a luxury reserved for tougher enemies, and I would probably stop sniping seekers with my PVG90. But as long as my 6* PVG90 doesn’t require maintenance, I will happily continue using it to take down whatever crosses my path, since ammunition is plentiful.

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The problem with ideas is that there will always be many people who will dislike it, if it was to be implemented. Now I would not complain if it made the game, but wear and tear seems to me a lot like a hunger & thirst mechanic. That sort of survival is not something I am looking forward to, but I’m also not opposed to.

I do get that you can’t fake wear & tear by forcing yourself to use other weapons for a week or so, pretending the other guns are in repair. But some players show that it can be done. Like players who stop using ‘Fast Travel’ or use the bike to go where no man has gone before, because it renews and intensifies their game experience.

I do appreciate that you are not tearing the game and the makers down, like so many on internet, but come up with ideas and being open (I hope) for suggestions to research self-limiting gameplay, and make it interesting again until the DLC arrives. Getting bored will always be a problem with this game, because at some point we once again explored everything and did all tasks and missions.

It´s all about Will and Discipline.

At the moment i´m playing other games.
But Since Last October to January I kept changing all weapons from time to time.
I used them all, even the Moller.
It was fun :grinning:

Now, Since the beginning I follow certain rules.

  • I never use the PVG against Runners, Seekers, and Only use it sometimes against APOC Hunters.

  • Unless i´m in a Hurry I use the PVG to soft the Tanks, then sometimes i end them with other weapons.

  • What about the harvesters? Well usually I take their Rocket pods out and then it´s shooting ducks (hunters).

It´s been that way since ever, it gives me the need to use other weapons and other tactics.

I suggest you @IanForce and others follow these methods.

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It should only apply to experimentals. 5* weapons are prime condition standard issues that’ll probably cope just nicely with a few months handling. Experimental weapons are … well experimental. It would only be fair if they required a bit of attention to keep working.

Wouldn’t dream of it. I’m just passionate about the game.

Sounds like a day at work to me :wink:. I don’t do that for entertainment, but thanks for the advice anyway :blush:

Personally, im in favor of wear and tear on the weapons. It wouldn’t really be like hunger and thirst (in my opinion). Mostly because…well…you wouldn’t be hungry or thirsty. Although I also wouldn’t complain if they added hunger and thirst, I totally get why they haven’t because its not quite the vibe of the game.

But to stay on point, wear and tear on guns would be a welcome thing, because it would keep everyone busy, e.g. gathering materials to fix them. So it would fix the boredom aspect. Of the game, when you complete all the missions. Because, lets get real. Eventually were going to run out of islands to put DLC’s on. So it would keep everyone occupied. I do understand that not everyone would like that, but there are other aspects of the game that people do or don’t like, and it isn’t exactly game breaking.

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No, absolutely not…

Have none of you played fallout 76?

This game is something unique and beautiful all its own and I am getting really tired of hear people try to make it more akin to 76.

Whether it be intentional or not this is a bad concept for this game title.

People hate the wear and tear michanic on 76.

In the pursuit of greater fulfillment and a sense of accomplishment and progress I would love to see culminating kill achievements with reward options…

There should more rewards for destroying machines in unique ways with different combinations of weapons and tactics.

Please forgive the directive nature of this response but I love this game as I’m sure you do.

However, I don’t want this to become another game out of desperation or lack of foresight

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The difference here is that it´s fun to use most of the weapons? :stuck_out_tongue:
There are some games where i always use the same weapons, but here most of them are good and unique.
That is all

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Although the idea of wear and tear sounds great there will probably issues with the implemented weapon quality system.

At the moment you have 5 qualities for weapons plus an optional 6th tier with experimental properties. The 6th one is probably off limits for wear and tear (or there needs to be a 2nd dimension parallel to the existing quality tiers). I think there needs to be a bar representing the state of the quality level. When it’s reaches 0 the weapon degrades one level. With materials the player can maintain the quality level of the weapon, basically “filling” the bar.

I wonder how this would work for experimentals? Could they degrade as well reaching quality tier 5 and loosing the experimental functionality? I think this might be an option.

If the devs would decide to implement wear and tear the whole quality tier system would need some modifications too. Misfiring, more random damage per bullet etc. would need to be implemented since this would make the need to maintain your weapons more intense and justified. This would make the game probably more difficult for the early game bringing it back to it’s roots. In 2019 the machines were intimidating. Today you can almost run through to the first church and if you bought the US weapon pack are immediately overpowered.

In addition I hope - if the devs implement such a system - there will be no need for more blueprints. It’s tedious already and more blueprints don’t help the game.

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Very good points, @knobitobi :+1:. Personally I would prefer that 1* to 5* weapons always retained their levels. Experimentals should then move out of the tier system (loose the “6*” and simply be called experimentals) and be subject to degradation and require maintenance. Then they should start to spawn at a certain player level to keep the opening game as fun and frustrating as I remember it. Very much as you kind of suggest in your post. That would give the “ordinary” weapons a new life in my gameplay. I think it would feel weird if a 5* weapon suddenly became a 4* weapon.

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Hey, I generally like your intention to get players to use different weapons, but I’m not a fan of the wear and tear to be honest.
Something should be done because since Pontus got his exp PVG I think 90% of the streams he only uses this weapon until he runs out of ammo.

To increase the use of other weapons when you have exp ones I would rather implement experimental ammo for those weapons. This ammo could be craftable only. Maybe than the supply is not almost unlimited like now and players would use exp. weapons only if necessary. It could also be a way to balance future damage buffs of them.
Probably this would not apply to all Experimentals because not all have special effects. An exception could be the Kpist and the M49. They shoot the same projectiles only faster.
The others have elementar damage, super penetrating bullets or emp effects.

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Ive never played Fallout 76, so ill just have to take your word for it. My friend has played it, and he says its awful, so I guess I have experience with it vicariously through him.

Personally, I think this would make the game like it was before, a little bit frustrating, but not impossible, because, in real combat situations, and survival scenarios, guns would fail (jam, misfire, etc.) and so, by doing this, I feel that it would actually make the game far more realistic.

Maybe if certain people don’t like the idea of literal wear/tear, it could just be an efficiency thing. So, the quality level wouldn’t change, but fire rate, for instance, would be affected. In fact, we could leave the amount of damage per bullet alone, but the gun jams.

Maybe this just sounds like redundant information, im just trying to come up with something that wont be game-breaking for some people.

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I could see that and then ypu have to clean your weapon.

Like you could just (shotgun) your AR style weapons and do a quick bolt wipe down in permissible situations.

Or do a much longer lasting full cleaning for greater effect

That is something I could potentially get behind if it were not going to detriment the gameplay of others.

Maybe even make it toggleable so that end game players have more options to make it challenging

Yeah, thats sort of what im thinking. That way, the player community wont be bored after finishing the main mission. The gun cleaning kits could be sort of like health packs, with 2-3 levels of effectiveness. They could also be craft able, My only question is, would they

A. Only be specific to one gun, so you would have a couple dozen different kinds, this would mean that every caliber gun gets its own specific kind of gun cleaning kit, including possibly experimental guns having their own as well. (Most realistic)
B. There are just standard cleaning kits- one for AR’s, one for hunting rifles, etc. without having to be specific to the caliber.
C. By far far the most simple answer- just have one kind of gun cleaning kit with 2-3 different levels of affectiveness, universal to all guns, even experimental, (Least realistic)

Me personally? I won’t bother with it. I’ll just have more items to hoard and utilize. And then recycle it when I shoot it to the scrap.
GZ is a game, where prolonged fights sometimes unavoidable and if your gun stop shooting - you’re done.
While I’m not against “condition” mechanic, I’m having hard time to see it in GZ. There was mod in STALKER CoP (“Misery”, I believe), where was tiered repair kits. All of 'em were expensive or not even worth, because some were useable in 95-100% range, that is couple of mags.
My FO:NV (latest Fallout I’ve ever played) build always had “Jury rigging” and all guns hoarded with excessive amount of ammo were shot until they break, then dismantled for spare parts to more “valuable” guns. Or more expensive guns/armor gets repair from cheap ones and sold.

its not a bad idea if its implemented like weapons from dark souls 1, weapons have durability… they have… a lot of durability, you will more of less forget about it, you can go thru a single playthru without repairing your weapon very easily but its still there and you will still keep repairing it every so often the only issue would be that it would become an unnecessary resource sink that might as well not be there… now gun jamming without maintanance could be an added punishment in gun fights without adding a wear and tear mechanic something akin to far cry 2 the game that didnt happen

Rather than sophisticated wear-and-tear system, how about more simple solution to imitate it and which also would tie into weapon quality levels? :thinking:

For example:
1* quality weapon - chance to jam 50%
2* quality weapon - chance to jam 40%
3* quality weapon - chance to jam 30%
4* quality weapon - chance to jam 20%
5* quality weapon - chance to jam 10%
6* quality weapon - chance to jam 0%

With 1* weapon, every other shot you’d be firing, would jam the weapon since the weapon itself is in such a terrible state. 5* weapon, while being in pristine condition, is still not a perfectly made, hence the little (10%) chance of it jamming. And since 6* weapons are upgrades to 5* counterparts, they never jam.

Here’s compilation video of weapon jamming animations (from Far Cry 2), which devs can take inspiration, if they implement the weapon jamming system:


But when to get back to the initial wear-and-tear idea, it would be logical that weapons outright explode in your hands, if you neglect to take care of them.

Here’s another compilation of weapon exploding animations (again, from Far Cry 2), which is interesting to watch:

Though, i’d hate to see my HP5 blowing up in my hands but then again, if i’m negligent enough towards my weapons, i’d deserve that.

I would say way too much! I would have given up on the game on day one, if every second shot jammed on my Møller PP. It you divide the numbers by 20, then it makes sense to me. Except for experimentals. Experimentals haven’t been field tested, so they haven’t been refined yet. And they are so powerful, that it would only be fair that they require daily maintenance. So without proper care they’ll start jamming. And jamming in a serious way. IMHO.

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Well, that’s just an example and i didn’t put much thought into it. :smile: Values can be changed to better match the gameplay feel.

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That would just make the exp weapons even more the way to go. So you would have even more reasons to only use them.