I also wanted to have a player to player discussion as well. I thank you all for making this active.
I usually do honor what I agree to, but last time I checked the rule was dumb.
Thanks for bringing these points up.
Unfortunately change cannot happen unless people bring it up. So I brought it up. Some people here just seem to dislike modding and modders for no reason other than they add stuff to the game the devs did not.
I am sorry to say some rules are just plain not smart.
Anyways please stay on topic and respond and discuss accordingly : )
You would know about staying on topic since you did agree to the CoC, didn’t you?
Mods would for sure work, I have seen it first hand.
It could be done like Payday where modders are labeled so anybody who does not want to play with them can kick them or completely barr them for joining.
I’ve left this thread up because it concerns why mods aren’t allowed due to the EULA. But it dances around a taboo subject precariously and no favors are done by calling these rules dumb.
So keep that in mind if this thread is to remain open.
Generation Zero doesn’t support mods yet. It’s possible that it never will. The reasons for that can be many, one of the most common I’ve seen is when it messes with people’s games between updates. GZ is an evolving game where new content gets added over time and that doesn’t sit well with mods.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to close and/or remove a bug report because the issues users faced were in fact due to mods. Most people never read the EULA, but essentially if you modify the game’s files in any way, you void support if your game breaks. That’s a headache we moderators & the devs can do without, but what can you do.
As to why mods aren’t allowed;
It may just be that the game is not particularily compatible with modifying it’s files. It may also be due to the devs not wanting any datamining to be done to prevent future content for being spoiled.
The latter is a perfectly valid concern of any game developer, it interferes with internal roadmaps and development processes.
No I think the discussion of 3rd party mods being banned is dumb. I can see reason for the use of them, but discussion? No.
You see it’s a bit of joking here, sarcasm maybe. See how I did not mention you were breaking the rules because of discussing mods? That is because I thought it was dumb. Maybe dumb is not the right word but I feeel it describes my feeling’s torwards it. I did not however think rules on staying somewhat on topic were dumb, that’s why I “cared”.
I do indeed actually. However, the point of this thread was to gain more information on a subject matter I knew little of.
While both are agreeing to something and than breaking said agreement, they are not the same.
If I were to mod an MP game for my advantage and completely destroy people they would be having a bad time. If I however said something against the CoC in text chat, they would rarely care. Obviously a harsh example but I think the point can be taken.
And I like playing the game but with some changes. Is that not great, with mods you can keep the game original. Or make it what you want.
You are right, my bad. I might rather say I disagree with saud rules.
This is true, they can do this. My thought being is that if you are modding, You would acknowledge that it may or may not do this to your game, and that it recommends unistalling mods before updates and such. That or add mod support/infastructure.
Yeah yeah I can already see your response snipergirl. “What is to stop them from saying the rules are dumb and not follow them”, easy, they can only complain about it. The difference here is that the moderator decied to leave this thread up because it has genuine questions.
This is also a valid point. I cannot tthink of a super robust reason to refute said point either. This is why I think modding would be a great thing to add at the end of the game’s development life. No things to spoil then.
But I am sure there are otherways that can be done, though it may be extremely difficult. That would be not adding stuff to the live build that should not be seen. It should only go to the beta build. Then adding it into the live build shortly before it goes live.
The apple rarely falls far from the tree old friend.
On the mod side though, having watched 10+ years of speed runs - mods as an argument like here has really evolved since my time of PC gaming. It was as Zessir mentioned, a very taboo subject, but I find a lot of the PC games now have this mod tag as almost a standard, to where say 10 years ago people accepted what they had.
It as if its more of need now instead of want. More of an expectation for these titles to allow players to just - do more, and with the advances on software and hardware it’s a tough argument for them not to.
I’ll take custom weapon skins, my own customised Reaper to fight, full skill tree with max levels - I’ll give it a go see how crazy it is…but all dilutes the purity of the game. I would imagine this is quite a contributing reason as to why mods are not allowed.
I agree with that, If anything modding can extent the game’s lifespan. Fallout New vegas and 4 are prime examples. Even Halo the master cheif collection now being on PC is slowly getting mod support, and people have so far been able to create awesome stuff in those games. If GZ got mod support or at least allowed to have mods, then I’d consider playing the game again. As someone who is not a fan of the current direction the game is taking, I could more or less mod the game as it was before. Making it more gritty and grounded. Because I feel a product I paid more has changed into something I didn’t like.
Or perhaps someone could create some truly wacky stuff that makes zero sense, like a model swap of a tank with Thomas the tank engine. There is endless posibilities and the game stands to profit from more sold copies. Not being able to even discuss modding due to the EULA feels strange even with presented arguments. Modding has always been a thing for singleplayer games and server browser based games. It is like Lucid said
Unless it’s for cheating and getting the advantage in a competitive manner, then I don’t see how modding can hurt Generation Zero. It let’s people be creative and passionate about GZ.
People seem to think modding will somehow ruin the experience they want or prefer from the game. This is just plain wrong. Modding allows anyone to do what they want, so just do what you want, it is not hard.
This is the entire point of modding. To improve the game in the way you see fit. So now instead of discussing about how the game is too wacky, they can make it less wacky. But at the same time someone making their game wacky ruins your experience? It is just plain nonsense.
Not every game has to be like all the others.
I modded games in the past, too. Especially Red Alert, Red Alert 2 and C&C Tiberian Sun. I did some great stuff and it was really fun.
But that’s long time ago.
Sometimes we should just let some games how they are supposed to be and in my eyes this game is some kind of art. (of course, every game is some kind of art )
I just want to say, that this game isn’t finished yet and I totally understand if the devs don’t want someone else to change it. Think of an unfinished portrait… Would you, as the painter, like to see someone else grab a brush and paint something else on your picture?
And for me, as the interested watcher of this portrait would like to see the finished picture before someone else adds his own ideas.
I think, at this point of the discussion we should leave, otherwise it’ll be endless. Endless arguments for and against mods for this game that make no sense of discussing about as they are and will be still not allowed.
Except for in this case, it is a completely different (but identical) picture that you sold to them. A picture that if painted on by them, in no way affects the one you are still painting.
Again, people say they want to see the original or intended way of this game without mods. It is indeed as easy as just not modding and not actively looking at said mods of the game. Someone modding the game in no way changes the experience of someone who does not. It’s like spoilers for the story. Being within the community you always take the risk of someone spoiling it, whether by accident or on purpose. Except for with the story being spoiled it actually affects your enjoyment in some way.
Just because something is not allowed does not make the discussion of said thing nonsense.
The point of this thread was to gather all the thoughts for and against mods. To hopefully discover the true reasons they are not allowed as well.
To be frank from what I have seen, the arguments against mods are
Ruins “purity” of the game.
Problems with compatibilty through updates
Datamining and spoiling
Only the last 2 hold any water. Seen as modding has and will continue to be done, and no “purity” has been lost.
Well my question then is why should we? Who loses in the situation where we add mods? The devs have already gotten your money from buying the game and maybe some dlc.
As long as people who have mods does not interact with other players who are not using mods (which can easily be done by adding some sort of detection if someone is using mods) then nothing bad will happen in any way. Like why should you care if someone else is using mods? How does it affect you? I’m genuinely interested in that.
Like you said:
If you bought a copy of a painting and brought it home. (It is not the only version of that painting that exists.) You merely own a exact copy of it, Which is exactly how a game works. You own a copy of a game. The original painter of the painting (which would be the devs) would really not care if that copy got destroyed or something, Because the painter has already gotten your money from buying a copy of his painting.
The painter has already gained something from the whole event, And lost nothing. Even if your copy is destroyed or changed.
But why? why whould we need mods? I have used mods on other games and yes it is fun to ad things but then it almost always makes me and others forget the story and other things the game has for us. Like what if someone makes a zombie mod? yes it maybe whould be fun but then the game isnt GZ anymore, it is a homemade zombie game set in 1989. I think of course that there whould be some cool mods that whould fit into the game but still we dont need it, if you want more vehicles then ask the devs to brings them into the game instead of modding them.
We don’t. We need mods as much as we need Generation Zero, we don’t.
Yep you are right, you get it! It is fun, and that is the point of games, to be fun and entertaining.
Frankly speaking, if adding a mod to your game makes you forget the story that is more of per person problem. Plus if you want to focus on the story and not get disctracted by mods which you know will happen to youm, then do not install mods.
This segues into a thought I had. The problem with reality is that not everyone can have what they want all at the same time. The great thing about games is we can change the reality of them, its what makes games possible.
The only difference between a vehichle added by mods, and one added by the devs is the creator.
Sure, the devs may be more likely to “fit” it into the game. But a modder could do the same. From what I have seen a lot of stuff made by the devs does not “fit” now, weapon pack lore, base building, etc. That however is a different argument.
The game is built on player feedback. This is one of the core features on the website it self. So a lot of features are built on what people want right. So what is the problem of allowing people to add what they want to their own game?
Here is an example:
Let’s say I add a M1911 handgun into the game through a mod. I write a little story on the website. I give you a 3c version in your plundra and then put the rest of them as machine drops.
This should be familar to you seen as this is the exact way both dlc weapon packs are done.
But some people seem to think it will somehow ruin the story and game more than if the devs did it.
How?
Most mods will not give lore or reason sure. The good thing about that is you can take said mod, modify it it and add lore, then use it. Or just install imods that have said things in them.
Everyome seems to think mods = sandbox wacky stuff.
You need to explore the forums more. There are many threads asking for changes to be made. The good thing about modding is that if a certain feature added by a mod is just not balanced properly or does not fit into the game, you do not have to use it.
But what if the devs does not want to add more vehicles? What should I do then? If I’m not allowed to mod it in cus it will “ruin the game” then I guess i’m all out of options.
Thats the reason to why modding exists, You can forge the game into what you want it to be. Cus not everyone can be 100% happy with everything the devs add or do not add. Modding helps solve that problem quite alot.
Oh my god, this thread is really going to make me headaches.
It’s like I said before: endless discussion…
Yes, I don’t have to read it, I don’t have to answer.
But vice versa you don’t have to play the game if you don’t like it as it is. You don’t have to spent your money and then argue that this game isn’t what you wanted and therefore you have to change (mod) it by yourself.
Modding-capabilities in games for sure have multiple reasons. One reason can be no interest of devs/publishers in expanding or even supporting their game. Some reasons are founded by the engine/game architecture used and some will just be that no one (devs/publishers) wants the game just being related to some good or bad mods. They maybe want to create a good IP with a unique style… And that won’t be possible if there are tons of mods which add the same dumb stuff as in millions of other games.
With modding-capabilities most users don’t think about the game itself but about how to change it. That’s sad.
Respect the devs work, respect the rules, write down your own ideas as feature requests or turn away and search the game you like to play or to change.
In GZ I only use cosmetic mods which remove some unwanted graphical “features”.
I let the aweful Chromatic Abberation be gone because me as a human with organic eyes have no CA, that doesn’t make sense but almost every game has this ludicrous “feature”. Then I remove the Unsharpen effect of things in the distance. This is another thing that doesn’t make sense in a shooter. When I want to look in the distance I cannot focus on it because the game has it smeered out.
The game mechanic stays as it is. I don’t want any changes to it. The devs decided to have storage and carrying limits and that makes for a welcome challenge. Without it you just hoard and the game becomes bleak. Give the player all the perks doesn’t even make less sense to me. Why do you need them all? For testing purposes maybe since skill points are pretty rare and you cannot undo them, but not as a constant feature.
)