MarkNcheese42 said he was Michaeling. So I wonder if Michael perhaps is MarkNcheesing? 
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The apple rarely falls far from the tree old friend.
On the mod side though, having watched 10+ years of speed runs - mods as an argument like here has really evolved since my time of PC gaming. It was as Zessir mentioned, a very taboo subject, but I find a lot of the PC games now have this mod tag as almost a standard, to where say 10 years ago people accepted what they had.
It as if its more of need now instead of want. More of an expectation for these titles to allow players to just - do more, and with the advances on software and hardware it’s a tough argument for them not to.
I’ll take custom weapon skins, my own customised Reaper to fight, full skill tree with max levels - I’ll give it a go see how crazy it is…but all dilutes the purity of the game. I would imagine this is quite a contributing reason as to why mods are not allowed.
Alias
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Ah yes haha.
No sorry, me and Mark there are friends and have talked on Discord many times. We have eached gained things from eachother, phrases and such.
This is sort of an inside joke too as well. The line it self really is not meant as much it says, more of the story behind it.
kind of like how both Lucid and Mark will say "Okay 
"
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I agree with that, If anything modding can extent the game’s lifespan. Fallout New vegas and 4 are prime examples. Even Halo the master cheif collection now being on PC is slowly getting mod support, and people have so far been able to create awesome stuff in those games. If GZ got mod support or at least allowed to have mods, then I’d consider playing the game again. As someone who is not a fan of the current direction the game is taking, I could more or less mod the game as it was before. Making it more gritty and grounded. Because I feel a product I paid more has changed into something I didn’t like.
Or perhaps someone could create some truly wacky stuff that makes zero sense, like a model swap of a tank with Thomas the tank engine. There is endless posibilities and the game stands to profit from more sold copies. Not being able to even discuss modding due to the EULA feels strange even with presented arguments. Modding has always been a thing for singleplayer games and server browser based games. It is like Lucid said
Unless it’s for cheating and getting the advantage in a competitive manner, then I don’t see how modding can hurt Generation Zero. It let’s people be creative and passionate about GZ.
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Yup
People seem to think modding will somehow ruin the experience they want or prefer from the game. This is just plain wrong. Modding allows anyone to do what they want, so just do what you want, it is not hard.
This is the entire point of modding. To improve the game in the way you see fit. So now instead of discussing about how the game is too wacky, they can make it less wacky. But at the same time someone making their game wacky ruins your experience? It is just plain nonsense.
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Not every game has to be like all the others.
I modded games in the past, too. Especially Red Alert, Red Alert 2 and C&C Tiberian Sun. I did some great stuff and it was really fun.
But that’s long time ago.
Sometimes we should just let some games how they are supposed to be and in my eyes this game is some kind of art. (of course, every game is some kind of art 
)
I just want to say, that this game isn’t finished yet and I totally understand if the devs don’t want someone else to change it. Think of an unfinished portrait… Would you, as the painter, like to see someone else grab a brush and paint something else on your picture?
And for me, as the interested watcher of this portrait would like to see the finished picture before someone else adds his own ideas.
I think, at this point of the discussion we should leave, otherwise it’ll be endless. Endless arguments for and against mods for this game that make no sense of discussing about as they are and will be still not allowed.
Thx
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Except for in this case, it is a completely different (but identical) picture that you sold to them. A picture that if painted on by them, in no way affects the one you are still painting.
Again, people say they want to see the original or intended way of this game without mods. It is indeed as easy as just not modding and not actively looking at said mods of the game. Someone modding the game in no way changes the experience of someone who does not. It’s like spoilers for the story. Being within the community you always take the risk of someone spoiling it, whether by accident or on purpose. Except for with the story being spoiled it actually affects your enjoyment in some way.
Just because something is not allowed does not make the discussion of said thing nonsense.
The point of this thread was to gather all the thoughts for and against mods. To hopefully discover the true reasons they are not allowed as well.
To be frank from what I have seen, the arguments against mods are
- Ruins “purity” of the game.
- Problems with compatibilty through updates
- Datamining and spoiling
Only the last 2 hold any water. Seen as modding has and will continue to be done, and no “purity” has been lost.
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Well my question then is why should we? Who loses in the situation where we add mods? The devs have already gotten your money from buying the game and maybe some dlc.
As long as people who have mods does not interact with other players who are not using mods (which can easily be done by adding some sort of detection if someone is using mods) then nothing bad will happen in any way. Like why should you care if someone else is using mods? How does it affect you? I’m genuinely interested in that.
Like you said:
If you bought a copy of a painting and brought it home. (It is not the only version of that painting that exists.) You merely own a exact copy of it, Which is exactly how a game works. You own a copy of a game. The original painter of the painting (which would be the devs) would really not care if that copy got destroyed or something, Because the painter has already gotten your money from buying a copy of his painting.
The painter has already gained something from the whole event, And lost nothing. Even if your copy is destroyed or changed.
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But why? why whould we need mods? I have used mods on other games and yes it is fun to ad things but then it almost always makes me and others forget the story and other things the game has for us. Like what if someone makes a zombie mod? yes it maybe whould be fun but then the game isnt GZ anymore, it is a homemade zombie game set in 1989. I think of course that there whould be some cool mods that whould fit into the game but still we dont need it, if you want more vehicles then ask the devs to brings them into the game instead of modding them.
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Do every game need modding? it sounds like people like the game as it is
We don’t. We need mods as much as we need Generation Zero, we don’t.
Yep you are right, you get it! It is fun, and that is the point of games, to be fun and entertaining.
Frankly speaking, if adding a mod to your game makes you forget the story that is more of per person problem. Plus if you want to focus on the story and not get disctracted by mods which you know will happen to youm, then do not install mods.
This segues into a thought I had. The problem with reality is that not everyone can have what they want all at the same time. The great thing about games is we can change the reality of them, its what makes games possible.
The only difference between a vehichle added by mods, and one added by the devs is the creator.
Sure, the devs may be more likely to “fit” it into the game. But a modder could do the same. From what I have seen a lot of stuff made by the devs does not “fit” now, weapon pack lore, base building, etc. That however is a different argument.
The game is built on player feedback. This is one of the core features on the website it self. So a lot of features are built on what people want right. So what is the problem of allowing people to add what they want to their own game?
Here is an example:
Let’s say I add a M1911 handgun into the game through a mod. I write a little story on the website. I give you a 3c version in your plundra and then put the rest of them as machine drops.
This should be familar to you seen as this is the exact way both dlc weapon packs are done.
But some people seem to think it will somehow ruin the story and game more than if the devs did it.
How?
Most mods will not give lore or reason sure. The good thing about that is you can take said mod, modify it it and add lore, then use it. Or just install imods that have said things in them.
Everyome seems to think mods = sandbox wacky stuff.
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No.
You need to explore the forums more. There are many threads asking for changes to be made. The good thing about modding is that if a certain feature added by a mod is just not balanced properly or does not fit into the game, you do not have to use it.
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But what if the devs does not want to add more vehicles? What should I do then? If I’m not allowed to mod it in cus it will “ruin the game” then I guess i’m all out of options.
Thats the reason to why modding exists, You can forge the game into what you want it to be. Cus not everyone can be 100% happy with everything the devs add or do not add. Modding helps solve that problem quite alot.
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Oh my god, this thread is really going to make me headaches.
It’s like I said before: endless discussion…
Yes, I don’t have to read it, I don’t have to answer.
But vice versa you don’t have to play the game if you don’t like it as it is. You don’t have to spent your money and then argue that this game isn’t what you wanted and therefore you have to change (mod) it by yourself.
Modding-capabilities in games for sure have multiple reasons. One reason can be no interest of devs/publishers in expanding or even supporting their game. Some reasons are founded by the engine/game architecture used and some will just be that no one (devs/publishers) wants the game just being related to some good or bad mods. They maybe want to create a good IP with a unique style… And that won’t be possible if there are tons of mods which add the same dumb stuff as in millions of other games.
With modding-capabilities most users don’t think about the game itself but about how to change it. That’s sad.
Respect the devs work, respect the rules, write down your own ideas as feature requests or turn away and search the game you like to play or to change.
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In GZ I only use cosmetic mods which remove some unwanted graphical “features”.
I let the aweful Chromatic Abberation be gone because me as a human with organic eyes have no CA, that doesn’t make sense but almost every game has this ludicrous “feature”. Then I remove the Unsharpen effect of things in the distance. This is another thing that doesn’t make sense in a shooter. When I want to look in the distance I cannot focus on it because the game has it smeered out.
The game mechanic stays as it is. I don’t want any changes to it. The devs decided to have storage and carrying limits and that makes for a welcome challenge. Without it you just hoard and the game becomes bleak. Give the player all the perks doesn’t even make less sense to me. Why do you need them all? For testing purposes maybe since skill points are pretty rare and you cannot undo them, but not as a constant feature.
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Only speaking for myself now, in my case I spent money on a game that had a tone, atmosphere and gameplay that I really liked plus some more stuff. Overtime those things that I think made GZ unique is slowly getting removed or becoming something else. Now if this was an early access game then I’d think “fine this is part of that early access deal, things are bound to change”. The funny part is that GZ isn’t advertised as an early access game. Yet there has been changes to the games meta and how it is played. For some that is good and for some that isn’t.
On top of that GZ doesn’t have a clear roadmap, we don’t really know what’s coming in the future and that includes features that are still considered “fix it later” such as homebase and prestige points. In my opinion recent changes to the game feels more like chasing trends rather than doing something unique like the game initially was.
Mods are still optional. If anything mods just shows what people really like. What makes them dumb to you?
Not really, if anything it can further improve the gameplay experience. Let’s take Fallout New Vegas as an example. Obsidan who got the opportunity to license the IP from Bethesda had about 18 months of development, the game was praised for it’s writing and RPG systems but launched in a massively buggy state. Despite patches, it’s still recommended that people use mods to improve stability. If modding wasn’t allowed for that game would it sell well? A game filled with passion ruined because Obsidain were given short time and a buggy messy engine to work off. Then of course there is mods that are more visual like adding wheater effects, color grading etc etc to increase immersion in the game’s world
Even if that is done, it’s never guaranteed to happen. And that’s a given because they cant listen to everyone and in the end the game would become a mess with random stuff that doesn’t make sense. Mods give people the opportunity to add stuff in the game that they want without. It doesn’t hurt the game at all. They can only stand to benefit with more sold copies.
Edit: forgot to mention, one thing that should be an feature is a longer FOV slider. Right now it goes up to max 85 witch for some isn’t a lot, games nowadays push to around 120. I can play on 85 without feeling sick but for some that will be a problem.
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mod support would be epic.
modders are already doing a great job creating cool mods sugested by others (without mod support). Sooo
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Guys… The author of this topic clearly wanted an explanation from someone from the dev team about mods being not allowed by EULA and forum rules.
As for now we have 30 offtopic replies, mostly about how modding makes games better (with that I agree, but ONLY for single player games).
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This is true but I do enjoy debate. As for the point yes I did, but I also wanted to discuss those reasons. I could have been clearer.
Alright I am going to clean this up a bit. I will take a reponse/argument/point against mods and I will respond to each. This way no confusion happens.
I will also use examples to illustrate thoughts and such.
It would be beneficial if anybody responding to me does the same.
You are correct. I can go play another game I enjoy. It would probably be more enjoyable than this.
In fact I have been playing GZ less and less because of low content, spare patches, and overall built up frustration with features. I am sure some of this will be remedied by the dev team coming in with patches and such. The issue is the dev team will not do everything or fix everything, thati just a fact. Thing is, I like the game. I enjoyed it so much and played it for hours upon hours, not even including the time I spent talking about the game. Just because I dislike some of the ways things are done does not mean I will just leave because the devs will not do it.
You are right, we do not have to spend our time debating this. Nor de we “have” to modify it. I would be perfectly fine waiting for the next patch. No one here “needs” anything. No one is arguing that.
The fact that no one “has” to do anything does not change anything.
Not to mention the game IS what I wanted. I very much enjoyed the concept of the game and loved playing it. The thing is no game is 100% perfect for anyone. I (and many others) just happen to think a lot of the choices and decisions with this game are just not “satisfcatory” at all. EX: inv sorting, weapon balancing, skill balancing, bugs. We have been giving feedback to these for ages and no changes have happened.
All of these have been problems for ages and I have seen modders solve a good chunk in a couple weeks. Of course that is because they are just focusing on one thing, but the means does not matter here. If I can imrprove the sorting now, no one would be able to tell if a dev or modder did it just by looking at it.
This is a good point. Problem is anyone who wants to create a “bad” mod will do it anyways. Even if say, we had steam workshop and carni moderated it everday, people would just use them in private. Theses “bad” mods will be dsicussed in “private” places just like any ol’ mod is now.
Generation Zero is a unique game, I will give anyone that. The thing about GZ is that it is built upon what people want, we are told this over and over. The only difference between a modded gun and a dev added one is that a bunch of people asked for the latter, while only some few wanted the former. Or even they were both very highly requested but the devs just went with one, which is perfectly fine.
Many people here would agree a lot of GZ’s “unqiueness” has been lost due to no grand plan and just listening to the loudest. A bunch of “dumb stuff” that is in other games has already been added by the devs themselves. We can just take a quick look at the forum threads and many others agree. I myself think the problem is not that said mechanics were added, I just htink they were added poorly. That however, is a discussion for different thread.
I would say most users now think about hwo to change the game to make it better.
I see new people joining the discord every day talking about adding this or that to make it more fun or cool or difficult. I see many “veterans” doing the same. People already think about how to change the game to make it ever so slightly better in their eyes. Most people know modding exists already too, so making it more possible/allowed would rarely change what is already going on. Even being “banned” I still see people using and making them. The reason they even talk about the game is because they like it. Everyone here enjoys or enjoyed the game actively.
Do you want to know why people want to mod the game? They could just go make their own game if they really wanted to. The reason they want to modify the game is because they like the game. They like it so much they want to work on it creatively and share it with others. The idea that modding the game will make people appreciate the dev’s work less is just not sound.
Look at darksouls. There are so many mods to that game. Yet I only hear about how great the game is, how the gameplay and difficulty come together and make a masterpiece. This is only proof that if people like your game enough the mdos for it will not overshadow it.
I do respect the devs work. If I started modding nothing about my ideas of the devs would change.
For the most part I do respect the rules, except for one obviously. A lot of people are hung up on that instead of the mods.
Me and others have already requested and given feedback to all the things I can think of. Alll I am seeing is nothing actuallyb e done with said requests for months. This is fine, they can do what they want. With mods though, we could just do it ourselves. These are not even “wacky” things. These are popular ideas that change gameplay to be better. Skill rebalancing, weapon rebalancing, inv sorting, etc.
As for a game I would like to play or change, it would be Generation Zero.
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michael pls fixer game man pls, good talk
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