In the game the Swedish army is defeated and nobody on the outside thinks anyone is alive so why did nobody go nuclear? This would be a last resort as nobody wants to nuke part of their country but why not do what the USA did in WW2 nuke Japan rather than let thousands die in an operation by conventional means. I think this may be more a political game rather than military. The Politicians on both sides see this as a chance to gain new technology and get the upper hand in the cold war. They do not see FNIX as much of a threat and are waiting to see who will make the first move. It was the Russians with the mission, “The Enemy of my Enemy”
With this American weapons pack coming soon this means an American response is now in play. Both see FNIX as an Inferior force and this backfired on the Russians. The USA is being more careful as they’ve has had a couple months to plan an operation. In the end it’s the Politicians that are going to do something really dumb and underestimate FNIX.
Yes? No? Do you disagree? If so why?
First - no one controls FNIX. At least no sighns of any control from any external influence.
Second - big power wants this toy themselves. Sweden is a complimentary prize. Besides we don’t know state of affairs in mainland Sweden - at least I don’t know any clues of how much localized “machine infestation” right now.
Third - Nukes are extremely devastating weapons. This is still “Cold War Era”, where USSR and USA won’t wait to see where ICBM targeted - either way direction will be “towerds US side” or “towards SU side”. That means if anyone launch nuke - other party launch nuke at first one. That’ll guarantee us mutual destruction and turning Earth into Great Wasteland for the most part.
Sweden does not have its own nuclear weapons so they wouldn’t be able to do it themselves. And if another country were to use them on Sweden soil, that would be an act of war. Most countries would want to be absolutely sure about the circumstances before they did this and we don’t really know how much the outside world knows for sure.
To add to the topic: FNIX “infection” is currently very well contained in the Östervik area and there are no threats (as we know it), to the outside world. All bridges have been destroyed and machines can’t swim (or walk at the bottom of the sea).
This gives ideal conditions for anyone to send in their research teams, to learn about FNIX and either attempt to control it, or reverse-engineer it’s technology.
Minor Spoilers
While we do not have a 100% confirmation on machines outside of the island. There is some info that points to it being a possibility. During the mission “Back on Track” we find a couple mission items. One being a night shift guard’s journal.
The journal describes the guard as being excited to find out what is inside the mysterious red crates that go in and out the docks of Muskudden quickly. Saying they must come from the subterranean docks.
We also find a shipping manifest. The manifest says the machines did not come from the mainland. But instead were shipped from the base to all over Sweden. Under that it has the logs of shipments. All out from Muskudden. To ports into mainland Sweden. Such as Karlshamm.
This along with the fact that Muskudden is connected to a machine production area. We can strongly assume that there are machine on mainland Sweden. Now to how many, and if they are actually being used is unknown.
Not sure a nuke would work as there are so many bunkers. The suggestion does highlight the question why stay? If you as the survivor found yourself in this situation would your goal not be to get off the island? You probably would have come to the conclusion that somebody is going to hit the place with very heavy ordinance and it is the time to get the hell out. Unless, somebody on the mainland has asked you to stay and is in contact with you?
If Sweden had been completely overrun by machines some Politician will have escaped to either the east or west. I feel like they would urge then to nuke Ostertorn but nobody will listen. The USA and USSR will make a power grab. Possibly even the British or French to gain former glory. The Russians at first thought to destroy it but after the team from “The Enemy of my Enemy” But something changed Since December there has been no actions by either side meaning planning is taking place as I said above. The USA is going to do something. We as the player are stuck on Ostertorn because all big boats are destroyed and aircraft get shot down along with bridges blown to bits. If we escaped it may be no different.
I agree that some form of planning would be taking place. However in winter you could drag a small dinghy across the ice and in summer a day of good weather would see you across the gap in one of them. You could rig up an old car engine with a home made propeller. I still think I would have tried to make the trip.
While a nuke only destroys a certain area, there’s no telling where the radioactive fallout would land…
This, pretty much. The Cold War may just have reached it’s end, but tensions are still high. And FNIX, while I’m sure it wants humanity out of the way, may not want to resort to such drastic measures either.
Are you really sure that Cold War has endet?
I don’t think so it is still going on in secret behind the curtains.
The fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 officially ended the Cold War. But in GZ, with the ongoings of conflict brought forth from the Machine cataclysm, it may be the beginning of something worse instead.
That the Cold War oficially endet with the fall of teh Berlin Wall is the version what Newspapers and Politicans tell us.
But it is still goes on just on another level that we all don’t know.
The cataclysm of the machines are really worser than the Cold war. And i can see, that the USA, Russia aaand China are very interessted to get their hands over the machines.
Keep your IRL political opinions to a minimum while on the forums, please.
As to ingame, I’d like to see more involvement from other countries. More notably Russia and the U.S.A, but also the neighbouring ones.
Imo, simply because then there is no game!
It’s the same in movies where you sometimes think why do the characters do things that seem to make it more difficult. Without the struggle the movie would not have value.
That makes really sence and would be interresting because the countries around would help sweden.
Having studied nuclear attacks since I was a kid as an intrinsic interest.
For starters the nukes beyond the emp, which the machines survive are only going to affect small areas. The utter destruction is only going to cover very, very small areas.
Second the machines are not going to be affected by the radiation. Humans will which would make exploration much more difficult. I suspect that may be a plot line for a future dlc. A boat comes for you to help deal with things in an irradiated area as some idiots though nukes would help. Adding several survival mechanics. Like a few minute time limit outside depending upon how recent the nukes were.
Third, watch the movie the day after. That movie changed the whole aspect of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) over night. The whole fallout and survival aspects after nukes are not something that any country wants to deal with
Most of the projected scenarios I have seen for world war. The number of that world war will be a point of argument as the cold war was argued as being one. Iraq was argued as being one. Afghanistan was argued as being one. Really the number of that war is a BIG point of argument for many once you start presenting various points of fact and logic. Regardless of those scenarios most indicate that a couple of cities will get attacked on each side. This does not include the use of Vacuum bombs which are just below nuclear. It also does not include nuclear bunker busters.
If you want some sobering statistics look up nuclear first, second, and third strike maps. Those are the worst case scenario. With all the international trade now, I suspect this would never happen intentionally. The other aspect is that things have grown so populated now that even military and industrial centers are littered with residential settings. So there is much more discouragement on such attack styles now.
Fallout as such has gained much more meaning over the years. It used to mean a reference to a nuclear weapon. Now it is also used as a political reference. It is also used as a reference to consequences for personal and work actions. But such references also carry just as much weight as the actual thing.
But more specifically ALL the facilities are located in bunkers. In the 80s we had not perfected bunker busting technologies. So the short answer is nuking would not work as an option period. The other thing is that with all the R&D is there they want things intact so they can research what the hell happened.
Now the other thing is that in the 80s they had perfected shotcrete and gunite concrete application technologies. Those application techniques coupled with rock bolts allowed for the creation of easily nuke proof underground structures. The way the bunkers were constructed they would easily survive any and all nuclear and conventional bombardment.
The other aspect is cultural and one that existed during the 80s. The fall of communism was starting for one. The second is that there was severe fears of nuclear war, but it was diminishing slightly. Europe had more to fear, especially the Finlands of nuclear scenarios. So the political fallout would have been such that nukes would never have been an option.
But really, I would love to have a discussion with a swedish or Finnish fellow on their thoughts on such things in light of this game as most of my research were on what little books, publications, and source materials I could lay hands on.
As @Gysbert said "simply because then there is no game! "
And because this is not IRL the machines as seen in the game have countermeasures to EMP strikes.
There are too many bunkers too many machines, so unless Hundreds of nukes are used to destroy most of FNIX installations and forces it would do no good.
And using more than 3 or 4 nukes In Sweden would produce deadly fallout.
Using hundreds? even having multiple detonations in the same region and not all across the World, would produce deadly effects for the environment, economy and to society itself.
- Most of Europe including parts of Russia would be under deadly winds, and Sweden itself would no longer exist.
- The World economy would collapse.
- The USA would loose trade from Europe.
- Basically everyone would loose, and most people in Europe would need to use gas masks when outside.
- There would not be a global winter, but temperatures could drop some degrees, specially in the Northern Hemisphere.
- There would also be some food shortage and crop failure in certain areas.
So unless you are a Radical terrorist, everyone would be pretty much worried and having problems.
There are some other implications, including political ones, but i think i gave enough reasons of why is a bad idea to use multiple nukes (because 1 or 2 won´t do much to destroy FNIX).
I accept there would be no game if the survivors were not running around. I just wish there was a bit of a narrative that said why. A mysterious radio contact for instance that asks for intelligence on the machines.
But that has nothing to do with this “discussion”.
There is another one about foreign interference, check it out 