Experimental pvg a bit too powerful

General Discussion
1

i have encountered in multiplayer a person was using a setup for damage with the experimental pvg.

the skills he had it was marking skills 10%. component damage 10%. and using experimental ammo on specific situations.

guerilla difficulty with auto difficulty scaling on.

he shredded the robots into dead! the 20% damage difference is massive for him because the ammount of the damage it already deals it just deals more. its was so easy to notice the damage difference.

i talked with him and he sayed that infinite pierce so who cares about armor? and then he said if there is a prototype tank and you only have 10% bonus damage to components its nice differencce. but when marking kicks in its like 3-6% status more damage. so it somewhere like 9-16% per shot. the highest damage he has dealt from a prototype tank was 19% percent?!?!!

is this marking skill going in adrelanine rush or something. like jeez thats why he is staying in distance with marksman special with max stamina, speed and recharge.

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2

So do not use it. Use the 5c PVG instead.

You chose to use experiments. You are not forced to.

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3

Not really, balancing is a thing in games and the “you can always choose to handicap yourself” argument doesn’t really work in that context. The 6* PvG is an outlier in its strength and can pretty much be considered a degenerate tactic that trivializes the game. It not only negates the tactical element of the game by enabling people to just take out all machines save the Reaper from killing them before engaging them, it’s also imbalanced when compared to all other weapons in terms of ammo eficiency, range, piercing quality (no more need to actually get around machines, placement is a super important factor normally) and of course damage per shot.

I wouldn’t straight out reduce its strength, I’d just make it charge mode weapon that normally fires like a 5* PvG and shoots those piercing shots after a 1,5 second charge time, to also be in line with the linear accelerator it is inspired from.

Balancing things properly makes a game deeper, in the current state, if a new player got a 6* PvG as first experimental drop, all other exp drops, save maybe the KvM would feel unrewarding because they already own the best weapon. There should be more than one optimal weapon for 90% of the games content, and the PvG (and I admit the KvM to some extent) is currently ruining the possibility for there being a balanced endgame or balance among experimentals at all.

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4

So rather then changing your own use of weapons, you want to spoil it for all other players who love the powerful PVG.

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5

That’s a great idea @Genoscythe!

For example:
Turn firing trigger from button press to button release and add a charge between button press and release. The longer the charge, the stronger the shot.
The duration for the maximum charge again is a matter of balancing.

By this you could prevent that every first shot is fully charged… Well, the opposite would be ok, too.

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6

While this is correct, it’s hardly news… It has been this way for over 3 years, since the first wave of experimentals was added in late 2019.

That being said, I wouldn’t mind the damage of the experimental PVG to be nerfed a little bit - it would still be an awesome weapon.

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7

Of course I love the experimental pvg as it is, too.

It’s just the gap between its power and the other weapons powers. You don’t need many shots for everything, it has a large (if extended) magazine, high firerate, much power, over great distances and you get more ammo than you need.

Just not using an imbalanced weapon is a workaround, but doesn’t fix the issue.

Btw… In most cases the experimental pvg is even too strong in penetration to use the experimental explosive ammo… Most times I shoot at a large target, the explosive just runs through the target and explodes some times later somewhere behind the target.

Almost like with the exp magnus when using experimental explosive ammo… But for the magnus it’s intended.

Or think about the experimental granatgevär… Yes, I do use it. But to be true other 5c rocketlaunchers are more effective. The 6c doesn’t double the damage, it just doubles the consume of ammo… Which isn’t a rare ammo and therefore doesn’t matter much… But additionally it takes longer to reload, if you don’t abort the reloading process manually after the first round.

The exp kpist runs out of ammo fast, the experimental klauke doesn’t to additional damage, but has a nearly rare emp-effect.

The experimental 12G doesn’t feel strong enough on close distances, and is almost useless over medium to large ranges (maybe except against fueltanks, cars,…).

The experimental kvm59 may cause crashes or hurt yourself if used for closer combats.

The experimental kvm89 may be fast and very precise… If you manage to keep it in hot state… But the damage output nevertheless is low.

The experimental AG4 is a good alrounder with no negative sides and it’s not too strong.

Last but not least the experimental Ă„lgstudsare. If it would be possible to aim with it, it would be a very special and cool gun. But most shots are just luck.

You see… The experimental pvg is the only gun which combines to have no negative sides with being much stronger than its 5c version.
But you also see, that the other experimentals could use some rework, too.

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8

In my opinion, the pvg is just right, I expect a 50 caliber to do enormous damage, I think what’s still missing is a 50 caliber MG, which can only be used lying down.

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Normally I don’t react to these kind of topics, because how we all perceive a game weapon is highly subjective. However this time I just put my reaction in here, just for the devs to show that at least NOT ALL players want the PVG changed. It certainly would not be fair, to change a gun, just because a few people on the forum want it. At least check this so called imbalance with a thorough survey among all players.

Fixing a subjective issue, by spoiling it for others is not fixing it. It only fixed it for some, not for me and many others who like the powerful gun.

Example: If I am am engaged in a fight with a level 4 firebird, and being fired upon, I can barely get a shot in with the PVG between it’s firing cycle. It still takes many shots to bring it down, because many shots will not connect on target to do maximal damage.

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One thing that I liked about GZ is that you can play the game you want to play it. Someone joins your map that you don’t like how they play or what weapons THEY choose to use, you can boot them out of your map.

With that ability, why does it always come down to a few wanting the game to be changed the way they want to play it? Can just not use a weapon, is a good option and it works for everyone.

After playing more than a few hundred hours, the game is a lot more fun playing with different weapons at different points in the game. Each player gets to pick their style of play and they pick their own set of skills. If you don’t like what they pick, don’t play with them.

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11

Ok, I see, this is again one kind of discussion with two main opposing opinions. One of the endless ones…

Although I like it as it is, I feel it should get a rework like many other things need to get one, too. Balancing is the keyword.

Of course everyone likes an "over"powered weapon, even if it’s a bug or disbalanced, but with no obvious negative side effects. At least in a singleplayer / cooperative game.

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12

The Experimental PVG90 is powerful, sure. And… Kinda boring.

I totally agree with @Genoscythe, a charged mode for it would be both useful, more balanced and still be pretty damn cool. It needs to match up the other Experimentals with a niche function and not just be “the best weapon”.

At it’s core I think that’s what most of the guns in GZ are, fairly balanced and a way to play the game how you want it, with the guns you want.

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13

In my opinion, the 5 crown PVG 90 is too weak. Far weaker than you would expect a .50 BMG to be against machines.
The experimental version amended this problem, and that’s enough for me. :blush:

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14

It goes through all weapons and classes…
Well, from a möller I would never expect to be able to destroy a tank. Not with 500 and not with 500.000 bullets.

Almost the same for 9mm guns and maybe even 5.56. Well I’m not experienced in real life ammo as you are… But that’s what I feel.

Would be interesting to see if we had guns that are just not able to even damage some machines, at least the bigger ones.

This would force us to find other ways to destroy them or to sneak around the machines.

But I think sneaking isn’t as good possible as it was earlier and it feels like some skills or craftings (apparel) and attachments (silencer) don’t work as a player would expect.

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15

i think balancing is kinda needed for public joining multiplayers because theres not fun of killing robots if some just player shredding theyre status into nothing. making it too easy to play. most of the time when joining a multiplayer game they will have powerful setups or just grinding too much that never ran out of uranium, allowing to craft experimental ammo forever.

it makes me think i have to make a topic for feature requests about improving multiplayer public systems. example as players can choose to join a specific world instead random world from public.

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16

Actually, I think a good way of balancing all weapons would be to adjust their weight. If the experimental PVG weighed 4 times more than an assault rifle, it would also make much more sense that it’s more powerful (since you then also could carry less ammo). So realistic weapon weights could do a lot actually…

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17

That and some other stuff, honestly being able to sprint as fast with an LMG or .50 CAL than with an SMG is one of the reasons smaller weapons underpeform. Weapon switch speeds, ADS speeds and handling should all be different depending on weight and type, plus ammo weight should play more of a role, too. Currently 7.62 and 5.56 and 9mm weigh the same for example, even though they heavily differ in power.

I’m hoping to see something like this this year, takes a lot of design effort but probably no other resources if the systems are hooked up in a customizable way.

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18

Yes, that’s another thing we’re talking about for some years now.

I hope the focus will get there this year. They still changed weights of ressources, so why don’t do that for weapons and equipments, too.
Of course, it’ll be a great change for everyone, because it will change everyones loadouts, but it will bring some more realism and forces us to take a descition.

But there is more to do, of course… (just thinking about weapons and their attachments)

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19

I think it would be cool if armour had weapons damage mitigation dependant on the power of the weapon and the armour level of the robot.

pistol cartridges and shotguns (9mm, 32 ACP, 12 ga) - level 1
medium cartridges (7.62x39, 9x39, and 5.56x45) - level 2
full power catridges (7.62x51, 243, 270) - level 3
anti armour (50BMG and the 84mm Carl G) - level 4

vs

Armour level 0 - seekers
Armour level 1 - runners
Armour level 2 - hunters
Armour level 3 - harvesters
Armour level 4 - tanks / reaper

Weak points that are unarmoured have 0 resistance, but the armoured face plate of a tank would srug off pistol cartridges unless they’re damaged by heavier weapons first.

You could shoot a tanks optical sensor, or hit exposed weak points on a prototype tank, but getting past the armour on a FNIX tank would be a serious problem unless you’re armed with the proper weapons. AP rounds might bump you up a level, if they’re available.

20

There are plenty of reasonable ways to balance the EXP PVG without affecting its combat effectiveness.

Let’s start simple: Weight.

The standard M82A1 weighs just under 15kg, the EXP PVG probably has extra bits and bobs that make it heavier; so let’s but the benchmark at 20kg.

50bmg, assuming it’s the M33 FMJ round, weighs about 1.5oz depending on grain.this comes to roughly 4 additional KG per 100 bullets. Then you’ll want to add an extended mag, scope, and vision device on top?

1 Like