Feedback and Thoughts after 20 hours of play

[Sgt_Engee]

To preface my thoughts on Generation Zero, I will say that my friend and I were impressed after nearly finishing the starting region that ends with Saltholmen Church and the Skarven Command Bunker we decided to purchase the game. There were definitely some flaws, but we are interested in where the story was going. We managed to pull 2 other friends in during the current play for free period that lasts a couple more days, and hopefully one or both will feel drawn in enough like we are to buy Gen Zero and keep plugging away little by little to finish the map. But would I understand why they wouldn’t want to. Below are some reasons why I love, laugh at, and don’t like the game.

What I love:

• The combat has been mostly satisfying. Why I say mostly is detailed below. But having played on nothing but skirmish, I gave felt that, for the most part, the combat is realistic enough to enjoy and bring me back for more. With the exception of the Harvester and Tank machines, I feel the combat is pretty spot on at shot to medium range. See below for long range.
• You health doesn’t automatically regen, healing is limited to what you can find and choose to carry and use. Ammo is initially sparse, but as you play and explore more and loot more outlying areas less populated by the machines that soak up your ammo, you have a chance to stock up and not have to worry about ammo as much. Until the Harvesters and Tank show up.
• The atmosphere, graphics, location, and map size. This game is BIG. I am still really blown away by the scale of the map. It’s really crazy how much time and effort the team likely put in carving stuff out. Yes there are a lot reused assets in terms of structures and furnishings, but given the time period and plot line during which the game is set, the country is more focused on defense than luxury. That, and you can only design so many different assets before you ask yourself, is it REALLY that important that we have a dozen different X models?
• Our first encounter with a Harvester or Tank:

Me: Oh god, do you see that?
My friend: See what?
Me: THAT GIANT BUILDING SIZED MECH!!!
My friend: Where- Oh ****!
YELLOW LIGHT TURNS RED. ANGRY WHIRRING SOUND
Me and my friend: countless curses and explicatives I won’t repeat here RUUUUUNNN!!!

What I laughed at:

• The bicycle physics. The second or third night we brought our third player in, we start laughing hard at our characters becoming the next superman/superwoman. He is lagging behind me slightly so I slow down to catch up, he lag a bit and his character catches up to mine and rubber bands. He collides with my character, and he goes flying 50 feet up in the air, lands head first on the pavement, and gets back up after a highly amusing discount rag doll effect. Please fix this. Or don’t. Terrible bike physics aren’t really something game developers have a monopoly on right now. CLAIM IT NOW!!!

What I don’t like:

• Harvesters and Tanks soak WAAAAAAY TOO MUCH DAMAGE!!! The first time we encountered one of these guys we were half expecting it as we had started to accumulate a good amount of ammo, weapons, misc gear, and healing. As any skeptical gamer will tell you, this is usually an indicator that you are unfortunately going to need it. Like our first battle with our bipedal friends, the Hunters, the Harvester/Tank was moderately terrifying and fun. After we beat him it, we realized we had use nearly all our healing, all our rockets, and had depleted most of, if not all our assault rifle ammo. So we rolled around the farms and homesteads looking for ammo at fighting in this game with only short range weapons like shotguns and submachine guns is a death sentence. After this we took a break for the evening and came back the next day deciding to try for Overby Air Base. This time we brought along our third friend.

Not only were were we repelled by the machines guarding the entrance, we couldn’t get near without being spotted by the Tank patrolling on the hillside, but if we tried to ride up near the gate, we get shredded by the poison ammo dogs. Further depleting our ammo, and healing we managed to sneak out way onto the base via the bunkers/hangers. Waiting for us were not 1, 2, or 3, but 4 big guys. Despite our best attempt at sneaking around the outskirts and methodically picking off patrols and small manageable packs, we eventually attracted the attention of a Tank. At this point, we were also informed that the game spawned another named Tank, which made it’s way to the base…with another tank friend in tow. T_T

If not for the fact that a safe house was discovered and unlocked, we would’ve likely given up attempting to take the base. But after about 2-3 hours in which the in game sunset, and rose again we managed to kill 3 harvesters, 2 tanks, and countless Hunters that were aerial dropped in by said jerks who also spawned threw ticks and other deadly explosives at us. After all this was over, a Tank spawned at the West end of the flight line…at which we let him live. Mainly because we had zero healing, ammo all but depleted, and no necessary items to hurt him with.

The Harvester and Tank just simply absorb too much damage. If they were being shot in areas other than their weak areas, I could understand to a point. But after you shoot an enemy in the back with 20 or so rockets, and the health is still well above 80%, something is wrong. I REALLY am glad we only one skirmish mode.

• Enemy range and damage. Harvesters and Tanks have virtually no range on their rockets. I’ve had them blast me from 3 football fields away with little to penalty to accuracy. This wouldn’t be a terrible issue if not for one MAJOR oversight. There is next to zero travel time on their rocket projectiles. Unless you are already running for cover and manage to get to it by the time they fire, their rockets will cover 100 yards in about .2 seconds. There is no room for error, and no real time for recovery between rocket salvos to do any meaningful damage. I don’t know HOW this game is expected to be beaten on the higher difficulties solo. If you don’t have at least on person serving as bait, you won’t have another change to hit a Tank in the back unless you happen to be able to chain EMPs. Even then it’s nearly impossible as they drop poison gas and more rockets as soon as you try to run around them as intended.

• Poison damage is inconsistent. When initially encountered in the bunker base, the poison is deadly, but with a mask you can withstand it for a short period and out heal the damage done to you when combined with Chemist. Unfortunately, the mask is not good to have on in a fight since it obscures your vision. So with only the 10% provided by chemist I take a crazy amount of damage from the runners that shoot poison. The Tanks that drop poison have killed me EVERY TIME I’m close enough to inhale it.

• Scaling has increased after you move into the farmlands. After we entered the farmlands today and left Saltholmen behind, it feels like the game took off the training wheels that was “easy mode” and then proceeds to take the baseball bat from the walking dead, hand it Pennywise who is now our dad who took the training wheels off the bicycle, and whispers “Don’t fall. Or it’s gonna REALLY hurt if you know what I mean”.

[sterd]

Good review! I can understand your frustrations, the game wasn’t even half this hard in the beginning. I don’t know what the devs are doing, but they seem to be pandering to the absolute top brass 1% of players. When I started playing there weren’t any poison machines in the game, since they came with the DLC. This game is not just a coop game, it’s a single-player game too, and single-player games SHOULD NOT CHANGE THE EXPERIENCE over time. It’s unfair to new players. Everyone should have the same experience when they play through the first time.

The community at large seems pretty dissatisfied with the latest update, so hopefully they will ease things up a bit. See this thread: New update a bit OP

[Zesiir]

Good feedback

Like @sterd said, the April Update brought with it a steep increase in Machine response times.

Regarding the poison gas I can recommend this thread.

There are different kinds ingame, the yellow gas you find in bunkers and that Tanks and Harvesters deploy and the tear gas fired by Hunters.

The Runners you encountered that shoot poison bullets are Apocalypse Class, the last class of Machines. The only way to get rid of the poison is to use any medkit type.

What difficulty did you guys play on? Machine health points are dependant on the Difficulty Mode.

[Garpfruit]

I’ve only been on the forum for like a week, so I’m glad that I was able to produce a thread that meaningfully contributes to the discourse so soon.

[Sgt_Engee]

We played on Skirmish mode.

I’ve thought about taking the difficulty down to the easy mode but I do like the challenges that the rest of the machines provide that aren’t Tanks are Harvesters.

And while the story is pretty intriguing so far I don’t think I would enjoy the game as much if I just steamrolled over everything just to go collect some bits of paper and audio logs. Right now the challenge seems to be pretty even-handed and the rewards are worth their efforts.

Edit:

As for the poison, it went away by itself. We did use healing to bring our health back up, but if we are at full health a barrage of poison bullets from the runners don’t seem to be fatal. They do really hurt though.

[megatron5634]

Have you tried aiming at weak spots and get experimentals? Aiming at weak spot INCREDIBLY reduces ammo consumption when fighting tanks/harvesters. Experimentals break the game.if you have the right ones.

[bcatrek]

I’m gonna butt my way in here since most people seem to be discussing the difficulty…
Yes the game did become harder, and while the Guerilla difficulty is super-mega-ultra hard, the other difficulties are perfectly doable, but please remember that you will die if you play duke nuke’em just gunspraying or running into a group of enemies thinking that the AI will be kind enough for you to play Rambo.

There are helpful items out there, and I’m pointing these out continuously in co-op sessions to unknowing players, so I just thought I make a short list here.

Lures

• Radios
• Boomboxes
• Horns looted from drones

Distractions

• Flairs
• Fireworks
• Radios/Boomboxes can also be used for this purpose

Incapacitors

• Throwable EMPs
• Placeable EMPs and Car batteries
• Power stations (boxes) on the side of some houses/buildings

Things that go boom

• Gas canisters
• Placeable fuels cells (small/medium/large)
• Grenades

Things that go mega-boom with huge splash damage

• Cars
• Power stations (boxes) on the side of some houses
• Petrol stations
• Large fuel containers (cylinders) at/around farms

---

Ambush tactics:

When in the vicinity of some enemies, try to place a bunch of explosives (so, gas canisters for example) somewhere on a safe distance from the enemies. Then, place a radio/boombox right next to these and run away. When enemies amass next to the sound source, snipe the gas canister/fuel cell and enjoy the explosions. Radios etc also work if you want to lure enemies close to cars as well, for example.

Distraction tactics:

When sniping from a distance, enemies will naturally become aggroed and try to find you and run towards you. Throw flairs and fireworks to halt their progress and distract them, while you yourself move from A to B. All the while, enemies will be more confused and you will continuously land a few shots, eventually killing the enemies.

Team-based tactics:

Designate beforehand who will be the one to draw the enemies’ attention. The others place themselves so that they can either run around or hit weak points or snipe from a distance. This can also be used to have a player run up from behind to place a gas canister nearby unsuspecting enemies that then someone else can snipe from a safe distance.

Choose ammo type for weak spots:

With a bunch of new players in the game, it’s natural that some don’t appreciate how weak the enemies’ weak spots are. Only choose the AP ammo type if you know beforehand that you rather wish to damage armor and grind your enemies down that way. For other ammo types, aim directly at weak spots for much faster kills. And even if you don’t manage to take down an enemy straight away by sniping off one of their weapons (for example), they will be incapacitated by this and be an easier prey afterward.

[Mr_A1992]

Also using binoculars with Thermal module to identify Machines locations helps a lot (or weapon with thermal module).

[bcatrek]

Ah yess @Mr_A1992 there’s always something more

I remember using the binos a lot when I was new to the game. Whenever I would need to run through an open field or along a road, I usually stayed in the perimeter and scouted with the binos every now and then, even where there was no sound to indicate presence of enemies.

They can also be used to plan an ambush in advance, Very helpful!

[Sgt_Engee]

We do try for weak spots, but unfortunately, the Tanks and Harvesters don’t really give us a chance. If you get the drop on them and rocket them in the back they immediately pivot and start shooting rocket volleys at you.

After playing some more today, the most frustrating thing I’ve found is after you use your all your rocket ammo on the them, they then don’t drop any rocket ammo. I get rifle and handgun ammo but no rockets of any kind after killing a harvester or tank. VERY annoying. You spend all the time killing them, but the loot is lackluster.

[Sniktch]

“get experimentals”? You mean by fighting tougher, harder-hitting versions of the things that have been broken by the update for a miniscule chance of such a drop?

As for aiming at weakspots: Knee, upper hinge, the ‘cap’ on the head, the panels on the back, the sensors on the upper left and lower right, the circuits behind the front armor plate. That’s Tank weakspots that are not trick-shot level to hit. Tank’s not horrible, aside the MG being an iron laser and the shockwave being impossible to outrun even if you back off in a sprint as soon as the animation starts.

Harvester, the rocket pods, the sensors on the front and top, the ‘thumbtack’ underneath the big armor plates on the front legs, and the box on its butt. Course, you have to swim through a river of hunters to get to the backside, or stand in a hard rain of rockets to hit any of the front ones.

I could list Hunter weakspots, too, but I think the point’s been made - players aren’t being stupid, they’re being body-rushed into oblivion or rocket-spammed into dust.

As to luring and trapping, the friends I had played with nicknamed me the Temple Of Boom, and I called propane tanks Manna From Heaven. Finding out there was a big increase in weight cap had me drooling over the thought of being able to lug more than 20 propane tanks out of a safehouse, building a Field Of Death with a cherry EMP in the middle, and lighting the candle with a boombox. That does not work when foes pop detection at over 100 meters, without line of sight.

[Zesiir]

EMP Rounds for the Granatgevär are worth their weight in gold, especially in multiplayer. One player focuses on stunning a Tank, the other runs up and disables it’s weapons. Or you can lure in a group of enemies with a Boombox, and stun the entire group.

[Crazedndepraved]

Yes emp rounds are gold, and just as hard to find, are there any sweet spot locations you’ve come across in your travels for finding them?

[Zesiir]

Military Tanks have had plenty of grenade round ammo, that’s worth exploring.

[Crazedndepraved]

Cool, thankyou. I’ll go bunker exploring as well and see what turns up.

[Sniktch]

The ‘reliable’ method to get EMP rounds is to get one first - my sole found was off a mil tank before the April update - , then cycle-scavenge bunkers for Ammo Packs. When you use an Ammo Pack, it gives you 1 mag worth of ammo for the equipped weapon of the type currently attached. Each Ammo Pack can be used 3 times, so that’s 3 EMP rounds per. Considering how valuable and rare they are, these are pretty much the only thing Ammo Packs should ever be used for.

[Sgt_Engee]

My other issues with the exploding tanks is the placement. You have to run up to the big guys and put the tanks, batteries, or other containers down for destroying. Between the time you have to run up the Harvester or Tank, set them down, run to a safe distance, and finally blow them up, I’m usually killed at one of those opportunities. Either by getting rocketed, gassed, pulsed, or stepped on by the big mech. On the rare occasion I do get to drop some tanks, I die before I can retreat to said safe distance.

[Garpfruit]

on adventure a single poison bullet will deal a total of 15 damage