I recently purchased the base game and have been enjoying it, but something is increasingly feeling off about the whole experience.
At some point did the devs bring all the map changes and location content from the FNX rising DLC into the base game … and then basically remove the critical FNX Rising mission objects for base game players? Or is there something else going on here?
Perhaps this works well for long-time players who already finished the base game before the DLC was released. But for new players, trying to run through the initial narrative and exploring that world using a fundamentally incorrect map is almost game-breaking.
Is there a way to NOT have these map changes imposed until the narrative of base game progresses to the point where the changed map would correctly match world of the game I am currently playing?
I’m not sure if this is an incorrect map, maybe it’s actually suppossed to look like that from day one.
I have to agree, if Alpine Unrest and FNIX Rising actually explicitly take place after the main story and not during it, I also would prefer if their missions only got unlocked once you finish the main game, and if the FNIX structures also only spawned in afterwards.
Can you give some examples of the areas that you have issues with ?
My biggest frustration is that as gameplay has progressed, locations in the base game are increasingly indicating missions/collectables/weapons need to be found that simply don’t seem to be in the game. I’ve literally wasted hours looking for missions and collectable items because the game indicated there was still stuff to find. At this point, the only way to get some idea about what is real or not is look on the internet for spoilers … which, obviously, ruins part of the fun of the game.
The other part of it is that the world I’m playing in increasingly doesn’t match the story being uncovered. There is all this empty FNX infrastructure all over the place that is, at best, unexplained … and often not entirely consistent with the story discovered through exploration.
The game narrative is clearly linear. Players come back from a camping trip and “X” has happened … the world new players find exists based on this “X”. A big part of the game’s hook is to figure out what exactly X is. What happened? What does “World X” look like now after the “incident”?
DLC is presented as taking the story forward in time. Alpine Unrest happens “a month later” and FNX Rising happens “as the year 1989 draws to a close”. If I understand what happened with FNX, the DLC basically created events that blew up (parts of?) world “X” and turned it in to world “Z”. That resulted in a new/different map with stuff exclusively tied to those FNX Rising events.
The problem boils down to being that the base game’s point is still exploring world X … but we are being dropped into the map for “world Z” to do this. For example in early walk-through videos, the farmlands area N. of Overby Airbase appears to be intact. In the linear narrative of the game, that destruction is a dramatic event that occurred well after the players arrive home and explored the “World X” continent for the first time. Starting the game two weeks ago, the entire area is just blown up.
For new players, there will be none of that DLC drama. We won’t explore “World X” and then come back from Alpine Unrest to find things altered by the events of FNX Rising … we’re just unstuck in time trying to learn the mysteries of “World X” in a map that matches a “World Z” future.
It feels like dumping players in the map from “World Z” at moment-one is also a major spoiler from hell. With all the FNX infrastructure already visited and mapped (with little/no resistance) while thoroughly looking for base-game side missions, it feels like rather than looking forward to a bunch of new stuff to explore, the FNX rising update will end up being walking from place to place I’ve already been now just to grind on killing robots there.
Yeah, that’s an issue and there’s nothing a player can do, to experience the timeline as it happened.
Before map revamps came, entire Östertörn (main map of GZ) was in a D-day state (November 10th, 1989) or few days just after the machines attacked.
Once Alpine Unrest DLC came, the Himfjäll island advanced time 1 month (December 10th, 1989), while the Östertörn remained in the d-day state.
The following map revamps (Archipelago, Farmlands, South Coast) advanced the time even further, about 1.5-2 months since D-day. (late December, between 26th and 29th, 1989)
This creates a weird situation where; when you are in Archipelago, Farmlands or in South Coast, the time is late December; in Himfjäll, the time is beginning of December; and in Forest, Mountains, Marshlands and North Coast, the time is beginning of November.
Once could say that the destruction seen in Archipelago, Farmlands and South Coast is fitting to the D-day but there are also some discrepancies that doesn’t make sense:
Masskar resistance camp (Archipelago)
There is no way resistance erected their whole camp in 1 day. This camp’s existence indicates time advancement since D-day.
FNIX structures (Farmlands, South Coast)
These structures also doesn’t fit the D-day. Instead, they are fitting for the time advancement.
Russian outposts (Farmlands)
Yet another discrepancy that doesn’t fit D-day state.
The description of the FNX Rising DLC flat-out says “scouting missions” are finding all of these new changes. It doesn’t feel like there is much to debate on that. Devs have specifically described the new map as time advancement - and that is precisely the game experience of people who purchased the base game prior the this DLC being released (and matches the game-calendar advance in those regions).
I feel like you’ve described the situation very accurately. It also still feels game-breaking from the base game perspective. The map as currently deployed simply doesn’t match the base-game story in huge ways. That part feels inarguable.
Base game is entirely about uncovering what that D-day calendar world looked like - and what happened on D-Day. That’s the game’s actual description. It is truly bizarre to have the game’s significant opening hours take place in regions that have been advanced forward two game-time hops beyond when that D-day world exploration is stated to be taking place.
Like, how are newbies who bought this off Steam (me) supposed to just figure that out? Seriously. How would a player possibly know they needed to seek out that “stuff base game players should ignore” list before wasting a bunch of time trying to achieve fully impossible game objectives? Certainly it shouldn’t require a few hours deep-delving forums before trying a new game.
The thing that doesn’t make any sense is universally advancing regional time (etc) at the base-map/core-game level rather than selecting a base-map (etc) to match the game time of a player in their own game’s actual progression. It makes it feel like rather than getting add-on expansions, the base game has sort of been cannibalized.
The only thing I can figure was this is the easiest way to pull off the update without breaking multi-player.
To me, the changes feel more like retcons and less like the effects of time passing.
So for example, when the FNIX structures and soviet soldiers were added appeared, I didn’t feel like they were built/arrived and died some time during the main story,but more like they were already there when I washed up in Yttervik.
I’m of course not trying to invalidate your experience, but I find it interesting how different they are.
I don’t think I understand what you mean by “retcons”. Doesn’t the FNX Rising DLC marketing blurb specifically say the FNX infrastructure (etc.) has begun appearing in the course of game-time passing?
I started playing wanting as little information about the story as possible and have been interpreting the things I encounter like you describe. I assumed the FNX stuff had appeared along with everything else found when returning from camping. Thing is, that eventually just doesn’t add up with the bits they give players trying to sleuth out the unfolding story … or who eventually read the game’s marketing materials.
The narrative conflict bits don’t bug me nearly as much as the locations reporting objectives that are fully impossible to achieve. Clearly, I’m not the only person who has lost pointless hours because of it. Doing that to players is just horrible game design. That’s what made me ask “what the heck is going on here?” and figure out all that FNX crap I was wasting tons of time trying to solve … or activate … or something … also didn’t have diddly/crap to do with the game I was playing at all.
And, honestly, putting that empty infrastructure there sucks too. It would be damn difficult to play the base game without mapping out a big chunk of the FNX infrastructure (let alone pointlessly doing it on purpose like I have been) … which ideally would be providing entirely new locations and surprises when players have gone through the base game and and ready to pay more money for the excitement of legitimately fresh locations to play from a DLC purchase.
To me the whole thing is a bit disappointing. Not earth-ending or anything, but disappointing.
Maybe the perspective has something to do with when the basic game was first played… or maybe, after the update, it is different doing the base game with/without DLC. Did you do the base game after FNX Rising was released without the DLC installed?
I don’t remember, to be honest, but things mentioned only in advertisments or tailers aren’t really part of my headcanon, so to speak, but that’s just me, so I can see how someone might think and feel different about this.
But I have to agree, it does create some plotholes, even regarding things that are not DLC related, for example, why are there no mentions of the trenches in any military document or radio logs ?
I agree that adding impossible/useless objectives in the game is not very good game design. It’s probably meant to make players curious and get them to buy the DLC, in the sense of:
“Here’s this weird building, want to do something with it ? Buy the DLC.”
Which can be annoying.
Not really, to be fair.
Once the update dropped I explored the south coast for a bit just to see what’s new.
Then I put the game down for a while until I felt comfortable spending money on the DLC, after which I started over.
But as a first time player, this would probably tick me off aswell.
When they changed your map, you didn’t want to explore all the NEW locations until they did something either … so you just flat stopped playing the game until deciding to spend the money to make the locations “real”. That worked for you because you’d already gone through the base narrative and the change matched the progression of your game.
That is exactly what I would have wanted to do.
It looks like the base game was actually pretty fun at one time … and the sleuthing parts had a rewarding point to investing the time accomplishing them. You are lucky to have had an opportunity to play it. The experience you enjoyed simply no longer exists.
I suppose the dev teams don’t expect many new players these days and don’t much care about the base game experience anymore.
Actually, the very 1st partial map revamp of Archipelago region, was catered just for new players and it was released in May '19 update.
The issue was, that most new players won’t play the game past Saltholmen bridge and they never get to see what GZ has to offer. So, in that update, the Björknässkogen and Iboholmen districts were updated, to include more POIs and machines that showcase late game machines to new players. E.g destroyed tank just East of Mörtnäs, in the woods; hunter on the road before reaching Stenhaga Farm; mil and FNIX runners roaming around etc.
Before the update, there were only proto runners and few proto ticks around. The 1st hunter you met, was either:
proto hunter at Iboholmen Castle,
proto and mil hunters at Saltholmen Naval Base
mil hunter at the bridge between Södra Saltholmen and Norra Saltholmen
Now, you can meet a lot of different kinds of machines in the Archipelago region than there used to be.
E.g when you start out of Yttervik and doesn’t follow the mission to destroy your 1st proto runner, but instead go North and follow the path along the coastline, towards NE, you’ll meet proto hunter, which most likely will kill you as well. <- That hunter wasn’t there in the early days.
It was. And it was completely different of what it now is.
Just to give you an idea. Imagine:
your max inventory capacity is 50 kg/lbs, not 96 as it currently is
there were no Plundra to store your stuff
there were no crafting to recycle/craft your ammo
there were no Rivals and experimental weapons
there were no Apocalypse class of machines
there were no Bikes
machines gave you very little ammo in return, true to the weapons machines had
there were no simple or standard first aid kits in machine loot table
the entire world was intact (no burnt down houses), just void of humans, with some machines roaming around (just like Mountains, Forest, Marshlands and North Coast currently are)
there were no spoon feeding POI icons (showing you “pick up this item” or “go through that door”). You had to think where to go next, based on the mission items (clues) given to you.
there were no Adventure-Skirmish-Guerilla game difficulty. Only one difficulty, equal to current Skirmish.
If you can imagine all that, then you’ll see what i was experiencing when i 1st played the GZ.
Removal of Plundra alone is huge game changer, giving you completely different gameplay.
I completely empathise that the FNIX rising stuff has utterly trashed not only some of the highest quality regions in the game and an early leveling-region that were previously meant for low level players to learn the eerie stories of the main island and the attacks… but also the new stuff has been delivered to us in an extreme wreckless way making the continuity of the story a confusing mess.
As an older player I’m glad that I played before FNIX rising but I’m angry that that experience is no longer available and I honestly can’t recommend the game to new people…
Since many players ended up going to South Coast just after finishing Archipelago (including myself), it’s easy to view it as early-game region. However, South Coast, as a region, even before FNIX Rising, was late-game region, since it contained some military class and many FNIX class machines. (And after Alpine Unrest DLC launched, apocalypse class machines as well.) Difficulty wise, South Coast is after Forest and more-or-less equal to Mountains region.
Devs tried to “conceal” South Coast a bit more, by moving region borders around and making Äso as part of the Farmlands, so that new players would head directly North, after Archipelago, rather than hugging the left coastline and ending up in South Coast. But if new players don’t pay attention to the map, when exiting Archipelago and still are hugging the left coastline, they can easily end up in South Coast.
That, i agree with. Especially when new players also buy FNIX Rising DLC with the GZ. Then it’s a mess between d-day South Coast missions (e.g “The Girl Who Cried Wolf” and “Spiking the Guns”) and FNIX Rising missions, that happen 2 months after d-day events.
Regarding what level South coast was supposed to be: Personally this was the 2nd region which I tackled, a long time ago, and it was my second Warboard.
If you take a look at this map it may vaguely indicate designer original intention by depicting where high and low level loot can be found.
It’s a mixed bag to be sure, but south coast heavily contains 1 and 2 star weapons (and some 4 star) while north and west regions often contain no 1 and 2 star weapons atall.
Sectioning the region away is interesting but why didn’t they just put all the FNIX stuff in the completely disused and almost-explicitly high-level Marshlands.
If they couldn’t transform the geography to put this now-end-game region far or otherwise blocked from the start region they should have just worked with the geography.
Note: do not post content from datamined sources to the forums. Latter is against GZ EULA and i had to remove the link from your reply.
Placed loot doesn’t play a role of depicting which regions are early and which are late-game ones. Since if they did, Himfjäll should be next, after Archipelago, since it holds loads of 1*, 2* and 3* placed loot, far more than in South Coast.
Instead, the machine classes appearing in each region define the suggested playthrough, which comes down to: Archipelago → Farmlands → Forest → South Coast → Mountains* → Marshlands → North Coast* → Himfjäll.
*To me, Mountains region is far harder than North Coast region due to the geography of the region.
That, devs, actually did answer. In the FNIX Rising release stream. At 00:21:16, link: Twitch
I don’t understand this assessment. In my experience (with the new South Coast transformations)(I’ve been testing with region score maxed out):
Himfjäll is all apocalypse
Forest spawns both apocalypse 1 harvester and 1 tank
Marshlands spawns 1 apocalypse tank and some hunters and runners
South Coast spawns 1 apocalypse tank
North Coast spawns some apocalypse hunters
In both our assessments South Coast which is supposed to be the final stage of the current story chain does not land at the end.
But I’m just arguing without being productive. Thanks for the links and edits.
I didn’t say it is a final stage. I did say, however, that it is late-game region, since it contains mainly late-game enemies.
For example (what i’ve observed):
Archipelago - prototype class + few military class machines
Farmlands - prototype and military class + few rare FNIX class machines (excluding Airfield and Skinnabol Crater, there, FNIX class resides)
Forest - military and FNIX class (about equal of both)
Mountains - military and FNIX class, with a bit more FNIX than military
South Coast - some military (until Minken), with only FNIX class the rest of the way (towards South)
Marshlands - FNIX class
North Coast - FNIX class
Himfjäll - apocalypse class
Here, i don’t consider apocalypse class in main island since they are put sparingly all over the map, while none spawn in Archipelago and Farmlands.
Btw, you could use your map to see where e.g different class Runners spawn. You’ll see even from there that South Coast has a far higher concentration of FNIX class than military class, compared to e.g Mountains.