Generation zero ideas

[Dusty]

I am totally agree with you Xogroroth👍Extra challenges will be nice add on :))

[Aesyle]

Long and winding list of ideas merged into collective topic.

//Mod

[Xogroroth]

@Dusty:
It’s not so much an add-on sir, but a whole new additional mode, seperated from the current modes.
I truly dislike shoving stuff down someone’s throat, I prefer it that people can choose their preference.

Thank you very much.

Would you like to see something altered, or added, removed?

@Aesyle
Thank you, miss.
Very kind of you.

May I ask, miss, what your thoughts on the idea are?
Seeing you are not just a VERY long time player, but also an authority on GZ…

[Dusty]

Well,I really wanna test everything what you wrote above with guerrilla difficulty with couple experienced players,like you,for example

[Dusty]

Also,I would like to see extra tools for ambush organization (Mined trees for barricades,C4+propan/air tanks,alarms in cars)
Bench expansion:combine different types of weaponry and devices (AT mines explosive+detenotor from hand grenades+radio-for ultimate handmade bomb,Molotov cocktails,AP/Tracer munition for PVG-90)

[Aesyle]

but also an authority on GZ…

Hard work pays off.

May I ask, miss, what your thoughts on the idea are?

Well, some i do agree with but others i don’t.

Machine responsiveness:

Where you were post-April '20 update and before June’20 update? Since at that time, machine AI was cranked to the max, with instant detection over very long ranges and pinpoint accuracy. You would’ve love that and i also liked that but most players hated it. And devs fixed it. Though, there is a topic to bring it back: PLEASE add April 2020 Difficulty as an option in the future

Machine Aggression Range

Current in-game difficulty level already changes that where on Guerilla, i can’t walk past tank at around 100m without it seeing me but on Adventurer difficulty, tanks finally spots me when i’m right under it’s nose. Though, even on Guerilla, range caps off at 200m and i don’t mind it being more.

Right now I have encountered (in FR) that machines dare run of to disappear.

Have you thought that perhaps the machine is disengaging to lure you to other machines?

I once followed fleeing runner and it lead me to it’s buddies.

Also note, while it should always try to follow you into a building, taking in account, it can, size wise, and safe houses should not be among these buildings. A safe house should be just that: safe, a spot to withdraw, rest up, in safety.

This i don’t agree with. For asking more realism, machines should be able to enter the safehouse and kill you there as well. Moreover, machines should have higher interest in safehouses since it’s known place which player often frequents and thus, it is high value target to keep patrols around it.

The simplified suggestion:
=> Proto Tick can be one shotted.
=> Proto Runner needs 2 bullets.
=> Proto Hunter needs 4-5 bullets.
=> Proto Tank/Harvey needs 8/10 bullets.
Military class needs 10-15% more resistance (based on Proto class).
FNIX class needs 15-20% more resistance (based on Proto class).
Apoc class 20-30% more resistance (based on Proto class).

I see a glass cannon here and with it, i don’t agree either. Machines in GZ are made out of metal, not cardboard and for that reason alone, it doesn’t make sense to kill Apocalypse Tank with 13 bullets. Moreover since you fail to state which kind of bullets exactly? Möller Hollow Point? 9mm SMG FMJ? .50 AP?

if you have been detected, to make a tactical plan to get you (circling the prey (you), or await you in a bush if you head it’s way (thus ambushing), things like this).

Hunters already deploy the flanking and surrounding tactic quite often.

Ambush, as such, is only useful for the element of surprise, especially when the one doing the ambush is outnumbered or outgunned, which machines are not. Due to that, i don’t see why superior force (machines) need to ambush weak pray (player).

Additional OPTIONAL tweaks: Hunger, thirst, fatigue.

No. Just no. There are plenty of survival element games out there to play. To name the few: Subnautica, Grounded, 7 Days to Die, The Solus Project.

Other survival options could be brought in, such as injury systems, or paralyse systems.

There is already disorientation in the game, when you take a solid hit and are down to only few HP. I think that is enough and players don’t need further handicaps.

Also, IF liked and/or implemented: amount of machines should increase per player added (thus game scaling).

Already in the game in form of Auto Scaling, if turned ON from the Game settings.

[Dusty]

You wrote above:

“I see a glass cannon here and with it, i don’t agree either. Machines in GZ are made out of metal, not cardboard and for that reason alone, it doesn’t make sense to kill Apocalypse Tank with 13 bullets. Moreover since you fail to state which kind of bullets exactly? Möller Hollow Point? 9mm SMG FMJ? .50 AP?”
It’s very good explanation,but what about non physical damage?For example ballistic shock.It’s already tested in couple hot spots in modern world,when heavily protected,remote control,engineers robots stop working without any visible physical damage.Just because their soft electronic internals have been received fatal damage from close mine detonation.Or good example high radiation damage for robots in Chernobyl in 1986.They’re just burned out.
I believe,Xogroroth mean standard NATO 7,62 cartridge.If hit,for example,robot’s weak point with first shot it’s start freezing and you can finish him with following rounds😎
Anyway,it’s just my opinion

[Aesyle]

It’s very good explanation,but what about non physical damage?

If machines disable/die on their own, it doesn’t make much of a game now, does it? And frankly, that too is already in the game. Topic about it: Poor suicidal doggies

Though, rather than increasing machine overall HP, as devs have done it so far OR decreasing machine overall HP, as @Xogroroth suggests, i think components should all have same HP as currently but it’s fixed how many components you need to destroy before machine blows up.

For example:
Currently, apo hunter has 90% of it’s HP in it’s cluster mortar. Shoot that bullet sponge off and few more shots are needed to blow it up.

Instead, how about the apo hunter won’t go down before 5x out of it’s 7x components are destroyed? The 7x being: flamethrower, mortar, tick pod, 2x engines, back fuel tank and optics (head).
FNIX hunter would need 4x, military one 3x and proto one 2x components destroyed before blowing up. Also, it’s up to the player to choose which components to destroy, as long as the amount of components destroyed reaches the amount of machine blowing up.

And for Rivals, there would be one extra component to be destroyed based on the class limit. E.g when regular military hunter needs 3x components destroyed, Rival military hunter would need 4x components destroyed before going down.

[Dusty]

Thanks for your previous reply;))I believe with chance for “Lucky” shot,when badly damaged machine will attack anyone around,game could be more interesting,cuz you can see your skill effect.Machines can’t be well protected in all points.Always,you can find a weak spot and use it against machine)As for me,I sometimes feel disappointed when machines reach organized by me AT mine field and stay on their own legs after mine’s detonation.Why,for example,close mine explosion can’t cut their limbs,damaging all external weaponry (I mean hunter/tank class) and make following fight much easier?!Will be fun to see tank on the ground without one leg!
Decision make from robots bullet sponges,when they stay in the fight without 5 from 7 critical components,as for me ruining all game atmosphere

[Kompani_Iboholmen]

fixed how many components you need to destroy before machine blows up.

I like this. It would bring more distiction between the different classes and one would have to think a little more when taking out a larger machine. This would also mean better use of component view and collected blueprints.

[Aesyle]

This would also mean better use of component view and collected blueprints.

Exactly my point.

Moreover, it also makes sense for machine not to go down until certain amount of components are destroyed. Since currently, you can destroy the machine when shooting at it’s main frame, without hitting any components what-so-ever. E.g last week i destroyed FNIX hunter while shooting only at it’s foot (since that sticked out behind corner).

I believe with chance for “Lucky” shot,when badly damaged machine will attack anyone around,game could be more interesting,cuz you can see your skill effect.

Hacking specialization covers that in the game. And if disorientation is achieved by shooting out machine’s optics (which would make sense) it also makes Hacking specialization and Remote Hacking skill obsolete. In that case, i and all others who have spend skill points there want their skill points back.

As for me,I sometimes feel disappointed when machines reach organized by me AT mine field and stay on their own legs after mine’s detonation.

Back in the early days, land mines had far more realistic feel where it took only one land mine to destroy: any runner, any hunter, proto harv and proto tank. I can’t remember if military harv and tank needed one or two land mines but FNIX harv and tank needed 2 land mines to kill them from full HP.

This realistic damage made things far too easy since back then, you only needed 2 land mines to take down FNIX tank. Just run up to the tank, drop 2 land mines at it’s feet, run away, tank stepped on the land mines and BOOM, no more FNIX tank.

Why,for example,close mine explosion can’t cut their limbs,damaging all external weaponry (I mean hunter/tank class) and make following fight much easier?!

While the complete machine dismemberment is fun to see, i think it wasn’t added to the game due to the console hardware limitations. Even now, we have dismemberment of machine armor plates and weapons when you blow up the machine but consoles struggle to render all that.

At some point, devs even shortened the time of dismembered parts remaining in the game. Now, those despawn in 5 seconds or so, leaving only machine body to loot. In the early days, those parts remained as long as the machine body remained.

Even in the forums, there are few console players who like the dead machines to despawn even faster, topic: Fix frame rate with new setting/PLEASE READ

[Kompani_Iboholmen]

Since currently, you can destroy the machine when shooting at it’s main frame, without hitting any components what-so-ever.

Yeah, as I slowly get more experienced I notice that killing enemies are getting more and more tedious and frankly, sometimes even boring.

Back in the early days, land mines had far more realistic feel where it took only one land mine to destroy

I think land mines should be a very powerful weapon, but in return sneaking up at a harvester to place them should be very risky. Perhaps all tanks/harvesters should be able to release gas (even though I really hate gas) as a close perimeter defense? Just riffing…

[Dusty]

I never used Hacking Specialization,thinking it’s useless,because if you can not get instant control over hacked robot you can solve a problem with bullet.Thanks,for your explanation Yeap,I totally agree with your point of view about console hardware limitations cuz I would like to see my results on the field after battle Also,I remember good ol’ days when using mines make sense and here I support Kompani_Iboholmen idea about mines;))I and many of others players wanna to see heavy weaponry work as fast and effective way to destroy the robot.I believe Devs could make it))Mbe,it’s will be rare,with smaller chance for spawn,but it’s must overpowered,because currently no big difference between small arms and AT mines/Rocket launcher.

[Xogroroth]

This i don’t agree with. For asking more realism, machines should be able to enter the safehouse and kill you there as well. Moreover, machines should have higher interest in safehouses since it’s known place which player often frequents and thus, it is high value target to keep patrols around it.

OOOOH, naughty…
I love that!!! XD
I added this for other players, for me, as you probably know, i feel the same as you do, miss.
But yeah, depriving ALL to other players is maybe… a tad harsch?
Still, I’d love if they’d also followed into the safe houses!
But it’s not just me, is it, miss.

I see a glass cannon here and with it, i don’t agree either. Machines in GZ are made out of metal, not cardboard and for that reason alone, it doesn’t make sense to kill Apocalypse Tank with 13 bullets. Moreover since you fail to state which kind of bullets exactly? Möller Hollow Point? 9mm SMG FMJ? .50 AP?

Now, the current machine toughness and a boosted Machine/Game AI… you’ll never ever get away.
Trust me.
I did not think light over this, miss.
If implemented well, one can easily half the toughness and life bar, and still be beaten into a pulp.
“Instant” reaction alone will prove dang deadly.
Too bad, I am no coder, I would love to show you what I meant, miss…

Still, I do respect your opinion!
Don’t get me wrong, please.
But even with 1/3rd the current machine toughness, they will be HEAVY…

Also, the suggestion I made in bullets, was mere an example.
I said in the beginning, the numbers will be a far fetch, lol.

Hunters already deploy the flanking and surrounding tactic quite often.

Ambush, as such, is only useful for the element of surprise, especially when the one doing the ambush is outnumbered or outgunned, which machines are not. Due to that, i don’t see why superior force (machines) need to ambush weak pray (player)

Good point.
Thank you.

There are plenty of survival element games out there to play. To name the few: Subnautica, Grounded, 7 Days to Die, The Solus Projec

Also true.
Another good point, miss.

Already in the game in form of Auto Scaling, if turned ON from the Game settings.

Peculiar… I do not notice an increase in scaling towards my “abilities”?
Or am I completely numb to it? o_O
Tres bizarre.

Thank you very much, miss.

@Dusty
I did partially pointed to this, indeed, but as I stated, the numbers are mere examples, not to be taken serious.
No matter which values they will have, it is the system I rather wanted to point out.

Thank you, sir!

I like this. It would bring more distiction between the different classes and one would have to think a little more when taking out a larger machine. This would also mean better use of component view and collected blueprints.

NICE, I’ll implement this in the final form.

Thank you, sir @Kompani_Iboholmen.
Seeing you approve, and hopefully, none will disapprove, we’re one step closer to adding this.

I’m pleased you participate, for which my thanks!

[Aesyle]

I think land mines should be a very powerful weapon, but in return sneaking up at a harvester to place them should be very risky.

While lands mines should be powerful weapons, most players don’t sneak up to the machines to lay the mines down. Instead they sprint to the machine, drop the mines during running and get the hell out of there before machine steps on the mine and blows up. <- This kind of tactic was very common in the early days when land mines (and gas tanks alike) had realistic level of damage dealt. Heck, even that old cheese tactic is still present in GZ wiki, under Land Mine section: https://generation-zero.fandom.com/wiki/Land_Mine

Since land mines and gas tanks were OP, devs did reduce their damage output.

because if you can not get instant control over hacked robot you can solve a problem with bullet

Not everything needs to be instant gratification…

I’ve found use for the Hacking specialization and while it does have cool down timer and success rate, the wait doesn’t hurt since it fits my slow play style (sneak&snipe). Run&gun players, yes, don’t have use of Hacking since they don’t have time to wait around.

I and many of others players wanna to see heavy weaponry work as fast and effective way to destroy the robot.

The issue with land mine deployment (actually any item deployment) is that all that can be done standing up and while running. To avoid the old cheese tactic, devs may need to set some restrictions to their placement.
Here, i mean that to place any place-able item (field radio, gas tank, large EMP, comm array lures, radios etc), player char must be in Crouch. Since it makes sense you to be crouched down when setting up those items. And to place land mine, player char must be in Prone, to simulate the delicate placement and priming of land mine.

Btw, they are machines, not robots.

But yeah, depriving ALL to other players is maybe… a tad harsch?

Well, your whole idea is making new, even harder game mode. Why hold back there?

Peculiar… I do not notice an increase in scaling towards my “abilities”?

With “ON” Auto Scaling, the more players join your game, the more machines can spawn at once, to engage with all of you. There is no difference when playing solo though.

[Dusty]

“And to place land mine, player char must be in Prone, to simulate the delicate placement and priming of land mine.”
Not really like this…I am sure you heard or have been read about “walking mine field” or special tactic for AT troops groups.It was in use by Germans and Soviet armies in WW2,Chinese in Korea and Vietnam and many others conflicts.Tactic is simple:group,armed with AT grenades,Molotov cocktails and AT mines,using landscape or any others covers rapidly attacking enemy armored vehicles or tanks throwing grenades/mines on top/under the vehicles,blowing or seriously damaged them,and fall back behind main forces lines.
Sorry,of course machines​:+1:

[Aesyle]

I am sure you heard or have been read about “walking mine field” or special tactic for AT troops groups.

Never been in the army, so, i got 0 clue about this.

Here, i relied on what makes sense and land mine, being sensitive equipment, needs sensitive deployment.
Though, anti-tank pressure mines, that require several tons driving over it, yes, can be thrown on the ground since the 1m fall wouldn’t trigger it’s explosive. However, i’m not that sure about anti-personnel mines, which trigger with only few kg of force. Those could blow up by just dropping them.

[Dusty]

AT mines requires something around 100kg weight for detonation.If you weight less you can easily walking on the mine field,of course if it’s not mixed with anti personal mines
“Here, i relied on what makes sense and land mine, being sensitive equipment, needs sensitive deployment.”I totally agree with you,if you not prepared enough,don’t mess with “silent” death:))
By the way,my favorite tactic not run and gun,but more guerilla style-sudden attacks and back to the forest

[Dusty]

I passed basic military training long time ago in Latvia

[Xogroroth]

I was thinking: a HUGE Underground Maze Bunker.
The end mission would be to kill off another FNIX AI, but the main goal would be to explore and take on a plethora of enemies.
Maybe a new enemy type, specifically intended for said bunker.

The bunker can have a story by itself, with side quests to gain information, or specific items that could unlock X (where X can be anything, such as a pack of them cookie thingies from way back, or a clothing set that is no longer available, or…), it can go far, if one has the imagination.

Which the Dev Team SURELY has.

As for a machine type: I was thinking a spider type, very fast, spraying lethal gas, but further unarmed, and following you everywhere until killed.
It should not be too tough, it’s speed should make up for armour, as trying to hit it would be hard.

Thoughts?

Addendum:
The entrance point would be a FNIX Factory, a really big one, in which all types and classes are made, except for the spiders (if implemented), these would be made on one of the lowest sections of the complex.
The factory would be heavily guarded, naturally, and very hard to infiltrate…