Level Caps Are Not Welcome & Here's Why

It’s a shame to not care about the developer’s feelings on their creation. This is a form of art in essence. As far as Gen-Zero goes specifically, the developer’s have said this is a passion project, something they had/have a vision, albeit one developed with community involvement, and to disregard that passion is to disregard a big part of what this game is.

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I worded that a it harsh. I see them as artist. I used to play in a band that only played originals, no covers. I can tell you artist get severe tunnel vision and many times forget about their audience. That’s why they have record producers that add much needed input, well the good ones do. I think many games would benefit from having an outside group work with the dev to perform a similar function.

They work directly with the community though. They read these forums actively, even if they don’t respond all the time, and they are active on the Official Community Discord. They have expressed that they are seeing everything here and intend to design the game with the community. Essentially all of us are that outside group you suggest, they’re just really busy right now. I mean, heck, the game just released and before any features are changed/added the main focus is bugs.

I get what you’re saying, and I applaud them what they have done. I like this game a lot. But my imaginary group would be working with a dev from beginning to end, not just after they come up with most of the idea. This could help prevent issues like going too far with an idea that isn’t good and keeping it because rework time is too costly. It’s easier to change things in the beginning. Also I’m not slinging this at Avalanche, AAA devs need this more than anyone.

Having experience with creating, from being in a band, testing industrial software, designing in an R&D lab and even working with independent writers from concept to print I understand that outside help has great benefits.

Trust me, I don’t expect them to add anything new right away and they have their hands full with the bugs first. I’m looking forward more to finally completing Strength in Numbers.

Sonofabitch. I put off working up a reply when it was just @NaturalGamer18’s textwall and @metafish’s reply… Now there’s another 8 posts on top of that? sigh

Okie dokie. Let me get something caffeinated and then, to steal a phrase from PhillyD, jump right into it.

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Yep you seen me reply other day to a post in section that was luckily for that person just in another section . It was as u say caffeine time :joy:

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It’s 100% clear that you did NOT read my full post. If so, you would understand that by having all of the skills at once does NOT make you OP as you keep stating over & over again in this topic. As you can see @Bubbs fully read the same post that you did & understood exactly what I was saying with the facts.

About unlocking all skills…you say…

So many other games from old to new have done that for many years (allowing you to unlock everything) & you say that it would kill replay value. Clearly that’s “your” opinion since all of the other games that do that don’t seem to have any replay value killed in them due to unlocking all of the skills. By that statement…you are just grasping at straws trying to say anything that you can to go against what I’ve been saying & all I’ve been doing is trying to post the facts. (As you can read from the Huge Text Wall comment as someone else called it. :laughing: )

I have not once called you out & said anything rude or nasty to you nor called you anything…yet so far all you do is attack me.

Example 1:

Even tho you didn’t straight up call me a “know it all” & “entitlement” & “rude” since you carefully said it the way that you did. However you believe that I come off as that cuz you still put those lines of text in there leading to the same thing as if you straight up said it to my face. Whereas you didn’t need to include any of it at all. All you had to do was state your case & info on the other stuff that you said. Not attack me personally. I even had to put “no anger was put into my message” & I wasn’t lying when saying no anger…but again…I had to put in there cuz of people like you that quickly jumps the gun & assumes that the text was typed in ways that it’s not being typed as. I guess by your words…I should make sure that every post that I ever make I should put in there ALL of the things that it’s not so that you can understand it better since you have not been reading anything that I’ve said correctly.

Example 2:

Again…you fail to read everything & say that I’m insulting other people in the community & you ARE calling me rude in this text.

Re-read this part of my text…

So all you have been doing is attacking me & I’ve not been attacking you. You have been ASSUMING that I’m attacking you & others here. Yet I’m not. I am the original poster / creator to this topic page & so far you came in attacking me “with those examples” I just put up. No…not everything that you’ve said is attacking me…but you definitely are doing it in those posts.

I did NOT want to have to say anything back to you about that cuz I have been trying to keep peace & follow the community rules…yet so far…you are calling me out saying that I don’t.

You said that to me as if I’m the one not trying to follow the rules here…yet it seems that you need to read that to yourself.

Since you took so much offence to the statement…

Clearly you have missed something since you took so much offence to it cuz the most obvious point here is that I put the facts down & you failed to understand the facts. Hence you must be one of those cases listed. Since again even after the proof in right there in writing…you continue to say…

Don’t lie & act like you read my entire post. You couldn’t miss it. It was a Wall Of Text that no one can miss.

From this point on…I’m done talking to you @metafish cuz you clearly don’t read & don’t listen. You are the ONLY person here that has been attacking me & not reading the facts that are right in front of your face. So this is me putting a stop to it right now. I follow the rules & will always do so. I’m not gonna turn this topic into a argument over your issue with me & the facts. So this is the ONLY post that I’m making purely to you. This topic was created purely for the facts to be stated…please re-read the title of the topic if you don’t believe me.
Any continued attacks at me & I will start flagging you for “Inappropriate Content”.

I’m sorry that it had to come to this & I forgive you of your wrong doings & I am kindly asking you to please move on from this topic page to keep the peace & have a nice day. :smiley:

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There’s like 10 posts to reply to and I’ll try to integrate it all, but first, let me start with @NaturalGamer18’s post. Almost straight off the bat, we get this:

Followed by:

C’mon man, this is a strawman argument and you know it. There is zero correlation between somebody saying we “must” have to choose our skills & be locked outta others and having all the skills make the player OP. You are assuming the motives of the players in question. So the question is based on a fallacy.

Also, who is “Everyone.” I’ve been looking across the forum and the only other post that talks about the level cap (other than those thinking it’s a bug) is here; and by the end even @Undertaker4219 conceded that while he’d prefer more than 30 skill points, he’d settle for just a respec.

Of course, amusingly, @metafish will say having all the skills make the player overpowered:

But a post facto admission doesn’t make your strawman argument any more solid. Just… Precient.

Regardless, I would have bitten anyway. Like I said, this has been a good topic. Unfortunately, this is the next statement:

Yep, and without context, that comment still makes no sense. Maybe you think we’re looking at this game like CoD and those other multiplayer FPS? I’m not sure.

I can’t speak for @metafish, but you’ve pegged me on the wrong side of the aisle. I’m on the FPS RPG side of the aisle.

I’m guessing the camp you’re in is the FPS with lite RPG elements a la Far Cry 3+

Yep, and there are tons where you can’t. Although, to be fair, most where you can’t have either classes, or soft caps where the law of diminishing returns makes it almost impossible to gain levels.

Next up you’ve got this:

These are two different issues. The broken skill tree and the level cap.

Myself, @metafish and @Jonasflink have all acknowledged in this post that the skills need rework. As you know, I’ve already talked about the skills that need to be ‘classless,’ the skills that make no sense in their respective trees, and the relative worthlessness of many of the skills.

In fact, in my previous post, I openly stated that if the skill system goes unchanged, you should be able to learn all the current skills. In fact, skipping ahead, you acknowledge that:

I actually suggested the reverse, that the more skills you learn the more expensive they get, thereby slowing advancement. :wink:

Not important though, the key thing is you get all the skills in the end.

Off topic for the thread, but keeps in touching distance with the post:

Yep. They have to go one of two ways with the clothing. Either make it all cosmetic (not including the gas mask), or have every piece of clothing have a variant for every stat (within reason - only shoes would have Jump Boost for instance). That way you can customise however you want without picking the best stats interfering with you playing dress-up. It’d need a new interface though, with a dropdown menu for each piece of clothing…

You’re post was a bit energetic at times, but mate:

NOT cool. It seems @metafish agrees:

Anyway, let’s just move on from that unpleasntness. This would be the point where I’d wrap up and reiterate my own position on the matter if it hadn’t changed slightly because of something I read in one of @Bubbs’ posts:

Straight away I thought how the frak did I not think of that? Well, that’s what these game forums are good for. Bringing together distilled minds… And reminding us we’re not as clever as we think. :stuck_out_tongue:

As @Bubbs goes on to state in a further post:

Trivial. The interface changes for the lobby would probably take longer than the coding.

So, therefore, my final opinions are:

  • If the skill tree does not undergo an overhaul, then an uncapped character.
  • If the skill tree does undergo an overhaul, but the devs aren’t willing to have both capped and uncapped characters, then capped but with enough points to either jack-of-all-trades it or master a few trees. Sorry, I like the flavour it adds to the character, ladies and gents.
  • If the skill tree does undergo an overhaul, and the devs are favourable towards having both capped and uncapped characters, then we all pick up our controllers happy.

Okie dokie. Before I end, I’ll go a little off-topic. You seem to misunderstand how some of the skills work. They don’t make the full tree ‘OP,’ but you are missing their potential.


  • First, I’m not sure you even mention Aim Speed, so obviously you see the usefulness of it.
  • Weapon Sway is not only useless to PC players, but useless to console players as well, as Marksman (if active) results in NO sway, even when moving. Why invest 3 points in Weapon Sway when the same amount of points would get you to Marksman?
  • The rest are mostly useless. I imagine Weapon Recoil would be useful along with a compensator, but I don’t run around at full auto.


  • Reload Speed. Two points gives you MINUS THIRTY PERCENT. It might cost two points, but that leaves you at a mere SEVENTY PERCENT of normal reload speed. That’s almost two thirds the regular reload speed. With slow guns that have a very limited magazine, that’s the difference between getting another chance at the target or standing there with 20 Health and one less Adrenaline.


  • Every single one of them useless.


  • Healer is obviously neccessary if you’re playing co-op.
  • Heal Amount would be useful if a) it didn’t cost 3 points to get to +60%; or b) Medic wasn’t two spots ahead. After all, with Heal Amount x3, a Standard First Aid Kit would heal 80 points of damage.
  • However Medic is probably the only truly OP power (relative to every other skill in the game). If it works as it says on the tin, and I’m slowly headed towards it to find out, then when you die an adrenaline brings you back with 100% health rather than 20%. Why fill a slot with 20 Simple First Aid Kits that only heal 25, or 10 Standard First Aid Kits that only heal 50, when you can carry 20 Adrenaline per slot that will heal you completely, let you look around for the best cover or egress in safety and give you a few seconds of invulnerability to get there. All the while not taking up a single quick-item slot.
  • The rest are crap.


  • Stamina Amount… Why the frakk do people keep asking for stupid shit like Stamina bars on the forum? Sprint will get you into cover. Then you have infinite jog. Useless skill.
  • Running Speed is ridiculously fantastic. Not with sprinting, but because it also increases jogging. With +30% it takes you 7mins 40 to get somewhere that would take 10mins without. That shit adds up.
  • Carry Capacity is obviously essential and shouldn’t be in a frakkin’ skill tree.
  • Steady feet is currently broken, but could be of use if you let Runners or Hunters within range. We’ll have to see. I bought it before I found out it was broken.
  • The rest are useless.


  • Another Stamina one. Frak the frak off.
  • Visibility and Movement Noise are off the charts. With those and Covert Movement Speed you can move up under a Tank or Harvester (if you’ve disposed of its escort), out turning them when they turn, and plant some tanks/fuel cells. No flares, or fireworks, or EMPs. Just a quick in and out and BOOM!
  • Commando… Like seriously… wtf? Any other game it would be +200% or something.


  • Spotting Intel isn’t technically neccessary, but without it you can never know how damaged something is unless its bits are falling off/sparking/burning. Also, Blueprints are useless without it. The second level you can easily get by without.
  • Remote Hacking x2 combined with Hacker are amazing for obvious reasons.
  • The rest you only pick up because they’re on the way to Hacker.


  • Lockpicking. Again, not strictly neccessary, but I wouldn’t want to play without it.
  • Salvage. This affects ALL ammo from ALL sources. I only keep AP .50 cal ammo now. This also works on HE and EPR rounds. I now use the recoilless rifle on Hunters just to use up the spare ammo.
  • Mechanic. Oh boy. You fully misunderstood this skill. With two points in it, when you destroy something, no matter how you destroy something, you have a 50% chance to get a part - as opposed to 0% if you blow that part of the machine up or destroy the fuel cell. Lures, vision modules, EMPs, fuel cells… Ticks. All the goodies.
  • Explosives Expert. As an aside, I deliberately did NOT put a second point in this one. I’ve blown myself up multiple times from being too close to a tank/fuel cell when I’ve shot it… Do I really want the blast zone to be bigger?!?
  • Engineer. My favourite skill in the game. It’d be overpowered if you didn’t have to go and get the Ticks from Hunters and Tanks. What you don’t know is that unlike the Ticks we fight, these don’t waste time with the slice and dice routine. They just go straight into suicide mode. They’re also so powerful a single one can take out a T3 Runner; and they don’t give away your position. No worries about getting peppered by rockets as you’re about to ambush a T3 Harvester, just tick, tick, BOOM!

wtf? This is a whole new post. Nooooooooooo!

I’ll read it later.

The new post that you said you’d read later.
It was purely directed to / for “Metafish”.

To reply to your last post…

First of all…I have no idea what you are talking about with the “Strawman Argument” part. If I’m understanding what you’re saying…it seems that you are completely taking things way outta context. (Even more on that later.) First…I was the one that created this Topic page under the “Feedback/Feature Requests” category on “Generation Zero” forum cuz there were things that needed to be said about “Gen Zero” & the other categories didn’t fit this specific topic that I had to type up that was purely meant for the devs. “Feedback/Feature Requests” is basically another way of saying…info for the devs. That’s why I didn’t post this in the “General Discussion” category which is what it seems that you think that this is based on some things you start off by saying.

Now lets start with where you say…

What in the world are you talking about?
You took 2 parts of 2 totally different sentences with different contexts…put them together & you are talking like I was the one that put them together. That’s taking the context outta what is being said. Again…that’s if I’m understanding correctly what your saying.
Your turning my simple topic that was originally meant for the devs into a whole other topic by calling my topic a one-sided conversation (Strawman Argument) & it’s based on a lie (fallacy). (More explained on that & about this topic later in the message.) If that is suppose to mean something else…then sorry…I had to look those words up & I’m still unsure of those words & of your angle with the first part of your comment.

Lets just move on from that for now.

Second…are you feeling ok? Every time some more people say something in this topic you keep taking mini-fits. (Not an actual fit. A mention like as if you were the original poster & you have to respond to everything & you are kinda hoping that no one responds till you clear all previous comments.)

Example #1:

Right off the bat…please no fowl language. It’s completely uncalled for.

Example #2:

Example #3:

Please calm down. Too much caffeine, maybe?

Anyways…last time that I checked (which I just did) you’re not a mod nor the original poster. I am the original poster & even tho I’ve not been responding to everyone like you’re trying to do. I HAVE been reading everyone’s comments & others have been kindly talking to each other on this page so I’m not trying to get into everyone conversations especially since this post was originally only meant for the devs hence the title.
It says…“Level Caps Are Not Welcome & Here’s Why
It was meant to be an informational page. Yes I should of had the huge wall of text comment in there at the beginning…but at that point…the devs know what their game is hence why I shouldn’t of had to put any hard stats. It wasn’t until “Metafish” came in here claiming that I’m wrong & that I don’t know what I’m talking about. Hence why the huge wall of text comment is meant to prove that I didn’t come here without proof. (Which again…wasn’t typed at first due to the devs know their own game & I was simply trying to shed light on something that they didn’t fully understand hence why the skills & leveling is such a mess.) “Metafish” attacked me & I’m posting the facts as my defense.

Before you or anyone else decides to quote one part in there about “the devs know their own game”.
First off…just because someone is a dev does not make said person smart.
So no one better say that the devs are law. Yes…it’s their game…but that doesn’t mean that they are doing everything in a fair way for the players playing their game.
Second…I’m not in any way calling anyone dumb.
Especially…these devs. They are great for the things that they have done with this game so far & it saddens me that “Gen Zero” is not getting the more attention that it deserves.
I remember that when I streamed the game day 1…I was telling people how amazing the game was. Sure I was talking about the bugs to…but I kept reassuring to people that the game is still in the oven being cooked & the devs want to do so much more for the game & make it fully work.
Alot of people are just passing over the game due to it being not complete yet & not being a AAA title. It’s more of a AA title.
Third…this is why devs have forums so that they can get feedback from the community.

Had to state that before someone quotes me & pulls what I’ve said outta context again since that seems to be the general consensus on this page. :woman_facepalming:

So let me get this straight…your calling my topic a Strawman Argument as if I’m replying to everyone saying that everyone is wrong? No. I have not. I have only stated the facts on here & even had to reply to “Metafish” a few times. But yet…somehow you’re saying that makes this topic a strawman argument? Whether or not I got the right definition for that word. It seems that you are completely misreading & misunderstanding what has already been said. (More on that later.)

You say…

It seems that you have taken the context of the word WAY outta proportion. When someone uses certain terms / words…the term / word isn’t always what the term / word means in a dictionary.

Example: Two friends are talking at school & the one friend says to the other friend (“everyone is talking about the new toy store that opened up down the road”) & the person was only referring to all of the people that the person has heard or knows from. (In that scenario it can be anything from social media, school, friends, etc.)

As you can see by that example…sometimes words are kinda misused. I should of used the word “People” to not be such an impact as you have taken it. There is so much text in this topic & tons of time put in from everyone & I didn’t use the correct word that you wanted to hear so now here we are. :rofl: As for the correct understanding of that word & original statement…it was referring to tons of people saying it…not everyone in the world…however…just because you don’t see the people here does NOT mean that they are not there. There is other sites where people talk & even life outside of the computer. Normally someone can tell “even through text” when a word was misused or a little misused. It seems that you missed that one. :woman_facepalming: :joy:

Now back to your one statement where you take 2 of my sentences & put them together…

First…the sentence (“We must have to choose our skills & be locked outta others.”)
Let me ask you this…what doesn’t make sense about that sentence? Is it cuz you only pulled half of the actual sentence & not the full sentence? What are you having trouble with in that sentence? That is saying how the system is…as to how it’s designed right now & people are saying that’s how it should remain.

Ok…next sentence (“having all of the skills make the player OP”).
That sentence is WAY outta context. You only took part of a sentence & IDK what in the world you’re trying to say about it. If I got this right you pulled that outta the question in the one comment. It was a “rhetorical question” & the answer was fully explained in the huge wall of text comment. If you don’t know what a rhetorical question is…it’s when someone asks a question that they are NOT asking for the other person to answer it cuz the answer is being explained by the person that said the rhetorical question OR the other person already knows the answer & that’s why the question was said to bring awareness to it. Which is both of what that was. It was meant to bring attention to the topic & to explain to the ones that heard it.

Lets move on cuz this is just disturbing that I have to be wasting my time trying to explain stuff that I shouldn’t have to explain because you are grabbing text & calling me out on it. You’re just a poster & not the original poster nor a mod. You come in here & act like you are as if this topic was made ONLY for you or made by you. Shame. :rofl:

Moving on…
I say in another comment…

& then you quote just the first part totally ignoring the ("…how would having all of the skills be bad"?) part.
& then you say…

I’m assuming that you must be new here. :joy: PvP stands for “Player Vs Player” . It can easily be understood even from the very first post on this page. That is not my fault if you couldn’t understand that. :stuck_out_tongue: I could say that you wouldn’t understand that if you weren’t into this stuff…but clearly how you’ve been talking…you know very well what’s being said. It is a general phrase that EVEN devs of other games have used many times in the past in advertising. Don’t come around here saying that my text is outta context when you are the one that is not taking a moment to slow down & actually read what you’re glancing over with your eyes. Lay off of the caffeine. :rofl: So anyways…it’s saying that “Gen Zero” is NOT a “Player Vs Player” game which it’s not hurting anyone to have all of the skills. Cuz in “PvP” games having everything could have problems depending on the system & the game itself. But we’re talking about “Gen Zero” & it’s a solo / Co-Op game. As advertised by the devs themselves. :+1:

Right here I should just stop replying since I can tell that you like to take things outta context just cuz it seems that you love debates & you wanna be a part of as many debates as you can. It’s extremely obvious due to how you’ve been talking in here throughout this entire topic & other topics. (You can see what others post in their profiles). :joy: It’s ok & perfectly fine to like / want to be in debates…but not when you are not on the same playing field as everyone else by calling everyone out on everything that they say as if you are the reason why we are all here. :stuck_out_tongue: (Reference that back to the fact that you are just a poster on this page like everyone else…not a mod nor original poster.)

But since I am replying to you & you have a nice long post…I’ll continue cuz you want to talk…so I’m here talking back. :smile:

Now to have a proper talk as just 2 people having a nice chat.

As to when you say…

Yes…& this game was straight up not advertised nor presented as a game with classes like those other games. When you first start up “Gen Zero” there is no talk of classes & needing to be careful of which skills you choose. Even by looking at the skills chart. They are only organized by the types. They are not telling the player that those are YOUR classes that you have to choose. Here’s an example (which CAN be found on this overall site) there were people confused & asking if there was a bug at level 30 when players weren’t gaining anymore EXP in the game. So the game is not classifying itself as a class locked type of game. As I’ve said before…the devs just threw the level cap system in there without knowing what to do with it & the players found out the hard way. It seems that no one was even talking about the skills issue till after players where saying that level 30 is max. So when people are saying that this game was built to have a level cap system…they are ONLY saying that cuz they found out that it was in there AFTER the game came out, after players hit that wall & are claiming that the game should keep a level cap system just cuz it was there. The game is still at an early-access-like point of view. Yes the game has been released. But the game is still in development. No one should be acting like certain things are set in stone that can be found in there other than what the devs have stated themselves. Example: The devs have stated multiple times that motorized cars would not work with “Gen Zero” due to the atmosphere of the game. Ok…that is set in stone by the devs. But people are claiming that the devs have set in stone that the game will have classes. There is nowhere where that is advertised at all like I said before…not by the devs nor the game nor even the advertising (the trailers for the game). As I’ve already stated with the huge post with all of the facts…& what others have also pointed out (in this post including yourself) & elsewhere…the level cap & skills were not set up for classes in what we’ve seen in the current version that the game is in & has been in. People claim that there is supposed to 100% be classes such as if the devs / game said so…yet where is that proof since the level cap & skills are not set up properly for that & the devs didn’t advertise the game as such & it doesn’t even say it in the game. Outside of the lock at level 30…if the devs fully had the classes planned…then that would of been one of the first things set up a LONG time ago to work the game around that kind of a system. Others back up the “theory” of needing classes by saying like Metafish has stated many times…

Yet…as I clearly explained in my wall of text comment that by having all of the skills at the same time does NOT make anyone overpowered & even @Bubbs agrees.

The skills that are in the game are just helpers like other games do skills. Meaning…that the skills both alone & together are just what the player wants to add to themselves. They are not designed to make the player OP nor put the player in any class. You even prove that when you talk about skills in your comment.

Anyways…moving onwards…

As for when you said about reversing the skill tree idea making it so that it costs more level up points to get certain skills.

As long as you can eventually acquire all of the skills…like you said…then sure…that actually sounds like a great idea. I’ve seen it in other games & it totally works. That can fully 100% work for “Gen Zero” based on how the game is already set up. Personally that’s the best idea so far. :+1:

Now to the clothes part…
Personally tho it would be nice to not have to worry about skills on clothes cuz it’s always sad in games that let you change your clothes to where you have to wear this or that just to get some help with stats. I mean…it’s a neat/nice system…but it’s like…“but I wanna wear what I wanna wear. I wanna look good or how I wanna look without restrictions.” :sunglasses: As for when you say…

Yes…that can work too. However…then that would also have to make the starting clothes have skills to & every shirt would have to have the same shirt stat & the shoes would have to have the same shoe stat. By everything having stats on them…it defeats the purpose of needing them there in the first place instead of just already gluing them to the player under the clothes. Does that make sense? I tried to explain it the best way that I can. I could try again if your unsure what I mean by that. Here’s another example to that…which might clear things up. Say if all of the hats & sunglasses have stats on them…then when you start out without them…but you already have all of the other clothes on since we didn’t arrive naked… :rofl: …then once players find the hat & glasses they would always wear the hat & glasses once they find them for those bonuses. (Note: That was an example.) Also…Yes…in reality the gas mask could be an example of that…however…there’s not gas around us 24/7. Unless one of the teammates…nevermind. :rofl: Even if you didn’t have stats on Hats & glasses…you still have the issue of the starting clothes. Lets also say that they don’t put any stats on the starting clothes…then people will have the stats fast cuz if I’m not mistaken…you can find clothes pretty fast in this game. (Which I like cuz you don’t have to go 50 hours before finding your first look. :stuck_out_tongue: )

Next topic…
About the part where Metafish was calling me out & even you agree with him…
There is a MAJOR difference with examples & straight up saying someone is something. Bottom line is…if the shoe fits wear it. However…it seems that everyone is taking that outta context & that’s not my fault. I posted the facts & there is people out there including in this topic…that are claiming that they know what they are talking about when they never looked up the stats. Hence why I said…

It’s called do a little research before claiming a statement over & over again such as…

I was already attacked prior in this topic hence the message that is ONLY for “Metafish” so I was being nice in my wall of text & I never straight up called anyone anything. Just stating the facts. More info on that in the message to “Metafish”. That’s why I even gave an example for the people that don’t know how to do percentages. As you had also quoted yet ignored.

Reread that & you’ll find the answer in there. I’m not gonna sit here & have people keep lying to me & in this topic without posting the facts in which I did for everyone. I didn’t have to spend hours the other day typing up all of that info for everyone…but I did…cuz I’m the nice guy here…even tho people are claiming that I’m not. (You can find the answer to that on this website page if you need a reference.)

Moving on…

You say that you weren’t sure if I mentioned Aim Speed.

Yep…it’s there. It’s not further down cuz the percentages of the skills that are affecting the game in terms of why this topic exists are listed below those skills & then the totals of the stuff that affect Health, Damage, Etc. are the ones of topic.

It seems that you are missing the point of my comment & are “saying as if I don’t know about the skills”. I was posting the skills SHOWING how they “don’t” make you OP as others keep reinstating over & over again. I was NOT trying to say that they are OP in any way.
Reread the huge wall of text & the answer is right there. :smile:

Also…to the skills talk in your message…I even said in mine that…

…so that’s why I don’t mention them at the totals part. However…I do have little write-ups about the “Specializations” again…showcasing how each one is not OP as others have mentioned that they are. It’s a crappy way…but at least it’s something rather than nothing.

But anyways…you posting the skills yet again in another new / better detail is totally fine & was needed for this page. I didn’t say it the same way due to HOW my post was talking about them in the way that it was. Your skills section actually continues to prove why classes don’t work in “Gen Zero” for how the game was built. Even tho you might not of typed for that conclusion…it shows big time that the devs should just do what you said so far which was…


I should of used better “Text Markdown” to make things a little bit simpler in my Wall Of Text post like you did with your comment…but there was so much to go through…I tried to space it the best that I could to make my comment readable.

Welcome to the Internet.
I personally dislike a level cap in this kind of game because:
Most of the big companies use methods to keep gamers in the game as long as possible and an open world game with persistent enemies and respawning ammo is ideal for an end game but without the play-reward loop in place… why would you?
I see this as something we shouldn’t fall out over because any developers with this kind of potential property are gonna surel ‘adapt’ this mechanism as soon as they realize that for many gamers a level cap can be the point where a game gets put to one side and then there’s less current players to support the game with feedback, tournament play and DLC purchases.
Again, less of an opinion here and more an observation that this kind of game makes better fiscal sense to keep players playing.

And oh yeah, the skill tree is both trivial and baroque. Oddball perks with tiny increments of stuff I’m managing without, and then the rare useful perks are hidden in amongst them. It’s bad enough that the levelling here is measured in epoch’s but the rewards (after inventory increases) are hardly anything to write home about.
One final thing on perks… Am I the only person to notice the perks are rarely actual perks?
Your characters begin so woefully inadequate to the task that by the time you’ve upgraded them as far as you can you, still feel slow, clumsy, fragile and outgunned. Hardly OP at all.


this game is being carefully shaped , not a battle royale or another shooter.
if everyone was able to be maxed level it would take away alot from the game.
im sure if you want a simple shooter game then max levels would be great.
i beleive the developers want more than just that in this game.
im sure you dont agree with me , why not make your own game where everyone is max levels.

very interesting what you both say but personally i think no point creating 2 charactors coz missions dont reset with secound char unless they change tht .it is 20 skill points to fill both trees of one class maybe they should of put a cap at 20 and made it so missions reset tht way makes more sense to make more then one char

Would it be better if specializations had their own set of skills you could unlock? There could be two skill sets, one you unlock/progress by leveling up normally, then you can chose the specializations you want to spec into. Kinda what Division 2 let’s you pick when hitting max lvl (either Grenade Launcher/.50 cal/crossbow). Each of those have their own separate skill trees to enhance their performance/buff player gear. Also, players can change them at will when it suits them.

I do not know whether a game exists that has no level cap or not, so, I am not going to use that.

To have a level in GZ is logical.
It stated advancement.
It states your skill progression.
It states “how good you are/have become”.

When a level is introduced, a cap is a logical follow up.
Right now, when a level is reached, a skill point is gained.
There are 30, I think, skill points to be earned, at this moment.
If we were to remove that cap, we would remove a LOT of possibility for the future, such as maybe new skills, that get their skill build up on top of the current ones.
To name just one option being affected.
Having an “uncapped cap” would also mean nothing, as, whether you are 30 or 3’000’000, it adds absolutely noting.
You would not gain more, skill-wise, equipment-wise, or otherwise, except for a meaningless number that keeps going up.

Oh, sure, you could brag to your friends about you being level 3’000’000 while they are level 30, but, from a practical point of view, they are your level.
Same skill points, same possibility to equipment and other things, and this would render your level 3’000’000 completely meaningless.

Hell, it would VERY likely become one hell of a frustration to you: there you are, God-level, but the level 30 fella right next to you pulls of the same stuff you do…
And it will become this: “Damned, here I am, level 3’000’000, this guy next to me, is just as tough and good as I am. I think, me having God-level, should have MAJOR advantage over him. I mean, 30 vs 3’000’000? That is just not right!”.
It will result to possibly either: “Imma go to the forum, demand more whatever that my level should have earned!” or you deleting your save due to frustration…

As I see it, a level cap ain’t so bad after all…

But that is just me. :slight_smile:


i agree that a level cap is not needed in this game.



All I’m gonna say is that you 100% misunderstood what is being said here.
The topic is not saying that there should be no level cap as in going to level 3,000,000 like you say.

The topic is saying that if you need say for example 100 skill points to get all of the skills…then we should be able to get to level 100 or get the required amount of points within the amount of levels we can level up & then stop leveling up at that point once we have enough points for all of the skills.
We’re saying that we should be able to unlock all of the skills & that’s it.
If they add more skills after that…then they can up the level cap to match how many more points we need.
No one said that we should keep leveling the level number itself to unlimited amount.


If you could unlock all skills players be WAY to strong for game

Hmmm seems I did, then, my apologies.

And I agree with @Sholack here, @NaturalGamer18.
We’d be OP, and this in a game where the machines already underperform?