I’m a sucker for survival games. Are there anyone else who dreams of a hardcore survival version of Generation Zero?
I imagine a version where you can use painkillers and adrenaline shots for temporary health and stamina boost, but any injury you get needs to be taken care of with 5 min or so otherwise your function and health deteriorates fast. And taking care of an injury needs to be done standing still and takes at least 15-20 seconds in game. And even when wounds are taken care of they would still leave some long lasting disability like reduced movement speed, stamina and instability when aiming.
Sleeping, eating and drinking would of course be necessary to keep normal stamina and to speed up healing.
Saving game should be constricted to safe houses. And dying should be more costly, if one player Is down you should have time to receive, but if not received there is no coming back only restarting at last save point.
All this would make fighting the machines so much more intense, knowing that even if you don’t die there will be long term consequences for not being well prepared for battle.
The survival score board would measure who has gotten the furthest without dying.
Anyone else who would prefer this to the original game?
I’d love to see a hardcore mode- a gameplay mode- with no fast travel, where the players loses experience points when he dies, where machines have a more rapid reaction time, and where they’re more difficult to destroy. It’s not going to happen though. There’s nowhere near enough support for that and the developers don’t want to do it anyway.
Frankly, I’d be happy if the devs opened up all of the islands for storyline quests and exploration. There’s a LOT more support for that, but the devs don’t want to do that either.
Survival, like it is suggested: No
But a harder, but well balanced mode would be welcome.
I see no fun to repeatingly die against hordes of bullet sponges. Faster reaction times in some cases would be good (Hunters for example). On the other hand the accuracy of them is too high in many cases. And the detection has to be improved.
There is a lot what would have to be balanced, more than I currently have time to think and write about…
I don’t believe that anyone else said anything about making them “bullet sponges”, adding hordes of them, or making them more accurate. It’s possible to make the machines more difficult to destroy without turning them into bullet sponges- perhaps for example, by making them more resistant to FMJ automatic weapons fire but a bit less resistant to AP rounds and grenade launchers. It’s worth trying because as it currently is, even the heaviest machines can be destroyed far too easily- and I’m not the only person who has addressed that in these forums. A tweak, and not a radical alteration, could help.
Yeah, permadeath is curing cancer by killing the patient. They’ve put together a game with great potential. It could just use some tweaks- and some storyline content and more world space for exploration.
Yes, that’s what I meant.
Currently the higher the difficulty, the more the machines become just bullet sponges.
And they really can be a lot.
Now imagine for example a base assault against a max level base, tons of runners and hunters and survival mechanics like the first post described…
Or a battle against some tanks, harvesters and their followers, maybe some rivals included.
They are too many and too strong to be enemies in a survival mode.
But I agree that they should be smarter and more unpredictable.
Base assaults are by far one of the easiest aspects of this game even on Guerrilla mode. A player can choose which base locations are best left to the machines by determining which locations have terrain which allows the player to take up a position within artillery or grenade launcher range of the base- but also makes the player unapproachable to attack. The player can then stand off at range and knock the base to pieces with either the experimental Algstudsare or explosive rounds from the GRG m/49 or the RLG- 7. From these positions, the player can target the devices which deploy enemy machines by determining the device locations using infrared or normal vision. Once the base has been pulverized, the player can move in closer by stages and finish off the survivors.
Examples of these bases are:
The hills south/ southeast of Stentorpet;
The other side of the bridge south of Ravinen or the hills immediately to the west of it;
The mountain due north of Tveberga;
The southeast portion of Tyloveden immediately north of the Sundby Camping ground;
The hills due south of Kaseberg and due east of Bergahojden;
The edge of the hill due south of Savered Radar Mast and north- northwest of Kallebyviken;
The castle tower right at Hammargarden.
To name just a few. Just one player can demolish these bases even when they’re entrenched, so two or more players working closely together is just that much easier. Resources are plentiful in this game for those willing to scavenge so ammunition is no problem- and you don’t need uranium- based ammunition. Sure- players who charge in guns blazing will get plowed under- but those who use their heads and fight like what the player actually is- a guerrilla fighter- will win every time.
The entire purpose of a survival mode is to actually challenge the player instead of having machines stand around waiting to be destroyed. That not everyone will play it is both understandable and expected. Not to worry though; the devs are not going to spend their time on such a mode, so this is just a wish that will never see the light of day- much like player requests to have the devs open up the islands for exploration.
Yes. That’s an easy way to get rid off the bases fast.
I once described a way to destroy a base even without a single shot. Just with a jammer and RC Ticks.
Because of that I once suggested some changes for base assaults for a greater challenge at least in destroying the command center.
Yes. That’s why I said that the machines should become smarter. They should use some tactics and force us to do certain things while they also react on what the player does.
That’s the opposite of what you described for the base assaults. You use the distance to blow everything up without being attacked. That’s not guerilla. That’s using gaps in the design of the base assaults or the machines detection ranges.
Yes, of course. But that shouldn’t stop us from thinking about sensible/serious/realistic ways of how the game could be improved or changed.
What could be possible for GZ? And if not for GZ1, what about a sequel, prequel or spinoff?
GZ could be so much more.
Who knows, maybe they now get more ressources, as Second Extinction was stopped?!
S.C.U.M. like mechanics for weather, food, clothing, injuries and wounds. Would be quite awesome. I like survival games, but i don’t like to bring it to this game. Extreme hardcore survival with shooter game would be huge job to balance out. These extreme ends of difficulty sometimes cater only very small group of players.
What i would like to see, is what some games already have.
New Game+ mechanics. Where enemy health / damage might be little bit increased. Loot amount in world reduced.
And every time you complete the game, you could start new game+ and game tier would go up each time for that character. Increasing difficulty for player.
This mode would need to be on default difficulty on start. And after starting this difficulty level cannot be changed during game.
I would like to see the game have a mode like when I first got the game and I WAS the prey and not the hunter. The machines actively looking for us and then use tactics to hunt us. As the game is now its like the machines are unaware we are even on the map, and we can easily walk right past them if we would like. And per the storyline, the resistance started and the machines should react to that. They don’t seem to have any objective other than, at times, they fire back when we attack.
They are just confused.
They came to kill or capture all humen.
But most times they don’t have contact with humen any more. Just other machines.
It’s hard to say what’s missing or what could be better.
I liked sneaking from one location to another. Cautious not to attract machines that I didn’t want to fight with, because I was weak and low on ammo.
I prepared myself for every planned battle… They were challenging but makeable.
Now, our weapons and ammo allow a totally different experience. And, if you now stumble into a combat outside of archipelago, it’s not just a few machines often… They are many. But it’s still easier and faster in most cases just to fight them instead of trying to get around them undetected. And it’s way more rewarding to fight them.
And if you get killed… There is no real penalty. Wait, you lose XP… But who cares, if you’re already at lvl31 or above? You just use an adrenaline and keep on fighting… Again and again and again. And if you run out of adrenaline, you just craft some…
I’m all for machines becoming “smarter” as you put it. That said, using distance to destroy a base without being attacked ‘is’ is part and parcel of guerrilla fighting. In military parlance, it’s striking at a time and place of the player’s choosing while reducing one’s exposure to an opposing counterstroke. The fact that the player uses gaps in the design of the base assaults or the machines detection ranges is a daily occurrence in single player games. The player employs the exact same concept in aiming for a particular part of a machine or knocking out gun batteries before moving in closer to a base. Like the man said- the way to avoid what is strong is to strike what is weak.
While I do believe that the player should be able to prowl by stealth, I very much agree with you regarding your statement about machines actively looking for us. This is an area where the developers have, well, fallen down on the job so to speak.
In the game storyline, these machines effectively eliminated the population of Sweden in one night, yet the player is able to move utterly freely while the machines remain in passive mode until they are attacked- and even then, the machines are barely aggressive. Just last night, I stumbled onto about 4 Hunters and two seekers with a Harvester in the rear of them. One of the seekers activated his alarm- but no other machines showed up to assist the original group, who were eliminated.
I understand that many don’t want a more difficult game experience- but if my reading of these forums and conversations with other players is any indicator, there are quite a few who do. A hardcore game mode for dedicated players wanting a real challenge ‘would’ have players playing it. Hell- I don’t use any mods, so if the devs elected to form a playtest team, I’d jump on that like a dog jumps on a bone.
In any case, the devs need to add ‘something’ to keep the game challenging, because a few pieces of clothing and a some weapon mods will not keep the game alive over the long haul- and the game has far too much potential for it to just wither away.
As I agree with you I still see it differently.
Attacking a base from distance, knowing that they won’t attack you because you’re too far away, is like using bugs. I don’t think that it’s an intended way.
Nevertheless, it’s possible and I also use it for about 10 rounds from my exp granatgevär in general… Aiming for the red beams.
Then I move closer to shoot the turrets that I can see and lights with my pvg.
After that I attack.
Shooting the weak parts/ components of a machine to weaken it is an intended way of GZ. It’s even an advertised feature.
Well, attacking a base from distance, knowing that they won’t attack you because you’re too far away, ‘is’ an intended way. The developers provided a weapons range on all sniper rifles and all automatic rifles that allows the player to outrange enemy machines even on relatively flat terrain. Find some good relatively flat ground with an enemy machine and max out the distance. Get far enough away from them and they just stand there while you plink away to your heart’s content. It’s no challenge and it’s so hard to find such terrain that I literally stumbled upon it, but the developers made it possible.
Call it using bugs or whatever you prefer- but both outranging the enemy and the use of terrain to one’s advantage dates back past Mongol horse archers and Alexander’s archers, slingers, and javelin throwers to at least Sargon’s Assyrians. Medieval castles were often built on high ground in an attempt to dominate the surrounding terrain and make an enemy assault impossible. That is stock military tactics 101. Using only tactics advertised and allegedly “intended” by a game developer amounts to nothing more than just hobbling yourself. But you do you.
I know my idea of a survival mode Gen Z would not work for the current game. No one would ever get even half through the game. For a prequel it would be very interesting though.
I agree with many of the ideas here. The machines need to become more difficult. Right now it seems you can destroy a hunter by shooting it in its knee with hollow point bullets, if you just have enough bullets and the Hunter keeps standing outside the barn you’re camping out in.
They should be able to locate you from further distances with normal and thermal vision. They should be able to see you through wooden walls, bushes and trees thanks to thermal vision and restricted x-ray, but not through stone, concrete or steel.
They should communicate better with each other with short range radio waves. They should be smarter in positioning themselves when they don’t get a clear shot instead of standing still and continue shooting in to the ground/a wall/a tree/a rock.
Hollow point bullets should only have an impact if they hit certain weak points, like the sensors in the head or the tank on the dogs, and ticks of course. FMJ should injure any component and low quality armour. AP should injure anything it hits. I also think that if you shoot the sensors in the head of the machines enough they should become passive, or go crazy shooting everywhere, giving you a small chance that they injure or destroy other machines.
I love the fact that you can kill a dog in one shot if you hit the tank, but I find it stupid that the tank is on the top of the dog where it’s the easiest to hit and only having armour on the front. Seems like it’s designed to be easy to kill.
Not to be a complete buzz kill on all of this but you are talking about a 4yr old game, so safely assume 6yr old tech. There is probably no-one from the original dev team still working on the game anymore, as that is usually the case with a game that has survived this long that is surprisingly still getting bug fixes and updates. Honestly the fact that there is still a dev team for this game is surprising.
That being said, while it is fun to daydream about what a game could have been or could possibly be would have to be within the framework that is already in place and that would still be a coding nightmare, and could have a cascading effect into other game modes, with huge bugs. And this game still has enough of those bugs dating back from its creation. That being said, within the frame work that is already in place and the ideas tossed around, the only thing that I can possibly see as a solution for a nightmare like mode (sorry I still get ripped apart on adventure mode in some areas and its not a Souls game) would be to go for a damage increase to enemies, no safe houses except bases, no mods, no adrenaline, healing items nerfed, no storage, item drop reduction, no clothing upgrades, and lock out the skill tree. you are a nubile 17yr old survivor from start to finish with no handle bars. what you collect is all you have. which from the looking through the boards is sorta how the game started but since it was received so poorly they added to the game so it was less of a niche game, much like the Souls games are, and dialed down the difficulty and allowed more growth and storage. So in effect a legacy mode back to the days of old for the old school players that have played so long that the game is easy… I played Code Vein (Soul type game) that was in effect beyond brutal and nearly insta death around every corner. And after a month that got easy. It happens with any game. once you learn it and play it enough that happens. Not sure why anyone would want this harder but thats just me. So that is my two cents on how it sorta could work for you guys within the frame work that is already in place. Since with a 4yr old game they might have a team of 5-6 devs, maybe, to do trouble shooting old bugs, learning old code, fixing old code, and still trying to stay relevant after so long.