It’s a big talking point the respec option and the dev’s do read the forum I wouldn’t be surprised if the dev’s address this sooner than later
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Skills of that sort needs to go away from the skill tree imho. Same goes for the ones that gives you bonus XP for various things. I hope the devs gives the entire skill tree an overhaul at some point.
To name a few skills that are pretty much useless:
Last man standing
Commando
Spotting intel
Other skills are simply a bit on the weak side, while for example a skill like Flanking is superior if you play with someone in coop.
I appreciate that damage bonuses won’t go through the roof when you level up. First because it’s not really needed (in current state of the game anyway), but primarily so that low level players still can play with max level players and not feel totally gimped in comparison.
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I think there are two ways to have a skill tree or skill build. One involves character progression and growth, the other doesn’t and is about picking “treats” to improve the game experience.
I’m not sure which if those is better for GenZero. Are we developing through the plot? Are we here to blast robots like we’re playing doom? Things like spotting or accuracy improvements could fit character development, XP gain is more a blaster bonus. Then there’s the co-op vs singleplay split. I’ve no idea how one goes about balancing that.
I’m not sure I’m pro-respec either.
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IMHO it’s fine as is.
Save for the mess it is in there, but…
Extra inventory space shouldn’t be a skill. It’s a false choice - 99% of players will take it.
I did a revamp a while ago of the whole skill system but it didn’t get much traction. There’s a lot of skills that are either false choices, useless at end game, or strictly cooperative. Not great design.
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I’m curious. Cross link please.
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Good job man can’t argue with your formula and agree that there is a lot of useless skill for solo players which is over 50% of the games current players.
Hopefully the dev’s will take notice
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Part of the problem with the existing skill system is that it’s reminiscent of the Far Cry 4 structure. Key thing there being that you can buy all the skills eventually, so nonsense chains don’t draw a lot of attention.
I wonder if the original goal was for players to earn XP endlessly.
Either way, a limited build system would work much better for the game now. Like a 30 point buy, or an equitable perk system like The Division or The Witcher 3. Ironically, you could make the inventory upgrade choice more meaningful if it weighed much more heavily on your build. If you only had 5 passive slots and your spec slot, do you REALLY need those 16 inventory slots?
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There is nothing like a ‘false skill’.
It’s an option.
If they remove this, then the points it would use should be removed to.
Why?
As you said, most, if not all, take it.
And we cannot have more free points…
Balance and all…
But, they are there, the skill is there, it is what it is.
Besides, forced options… there are none.
Like Invintory, it’s CHOICE.
You do NOT have to pick it.
No one twists your arm.
My current char does not have it…
Yeah, the “false skill,” line is a little dubious. However, the utility value of the inventory space vastly exceeds the buy in, to the point that it becomes an auto-pick.
You can have false skills, usually that’d be a “noob trap,” where something looks appealing, but doesn’t really work the way you’d hope. Hacking may be an example of this (I haven’t chased it, so I’m not sure.) In this case, the XP accelerators are also, probably, in that vein, because they look viable, but you’re better off sinking your skill points nearly anywhere else.
As for the inventory space? For 4 SP, it’s more than worth the expenditure.
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I will not say skills are ‘as good as can be’.
Still, the INVENTORY part is OK to me.
IF they would alter the skill tree, IMHO, other things need a desperate fix: Hacker is one of them.
@Starke said there are ‘noob traps’, that skill line is one.
It hardly works, and what it does is underwhelming compared to the combat line.
Leave inventory as is, but fix those that “actually NEED a fix”.
Then there’s BALANCE that surely needs a fix, I think.
But… that is me…
“It is what it is” is basically the opposite of what we are doing here in the forum.
And forced options are there because you have to use a skill point to reach a skill located after one you are not interested in.
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@pegnose Ultimately, that’s what it boils down to. If I had a skill in the game that whenever you fire a gun, it kills you, no one would ever choose it. I don’t get a free pass as a developer by saying “it’s a good skill because someone might take it for some reason” - that’s a poor skill because no one in their right mind would choose it, and it’s even worse if I make it a prerequisite to a good skill.
Likewise, if I had a skill like “gives you full health whenever you walk forward”, I don’t get to hide behind the excuse that “you can always choose not to pick it” if people (rightfully) complain that everyone will choose it because it’s too useful. The inventory falls into the latter example.
I’d be curious to see what percent of people don’t choose extra inventory - I think it would become extremely obvious as to how strong those 2 points are compared to almost anything else. That’s why we might as well just give everyone that space and use those points for something more interesting.
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True, and logical, but only one per skill.
You do not need to max each skill out, what many a game out there does force you to, if you want a skill tree done.
Funny, I knew a game that had just that: a sacrificial suicide that killed all enemies in a range…
And many did use it even.
Wanna bet, if there was a skill that had 1 shot = kill, nigh EVERYONE here (I mean in the game) would get it and use it CONSTANTLY?
People became just… “insta-reward” like… :’(
As if no one wants to put in effort any more…
DEVS - Listen to this man!
I have two ideas on how to implement respecing into this game
#1: Make it a consumable with a medium-rare drop chance; not common enough to be used constantly, but not so uncommon that you have grind for 3 hours just to get one.
#2: Set up respec stations at safe houses, and I have two ideas on how to set this up.
Idea 1: Set up a respec station at every safe house but give them limited uses.
Idea 2: Set up respec stations only at the Warboard bunker safe houses (or any other major safehouses), and put them on a timer (12-24 hours, but a separate cooldown for each station) This way you can’t respec until you’re at least at the first major story point, and you still have to be smart about how you spend your skill points because of the timer. This way would also allow players in the late game to keep respecing and find something that they like, or just try out a skill or specialization they didn’t spec for without having to make a new character.
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What is the point of making a new character late game anyway? There are no more missions or anything to get experience from so there is no way to even level up except spending 1000 hours picking off random spawn squads. And for what? The only way I can truly have a new character in this game is to throw away my save file completely it seems. 'Course I am a solo only player so maybe it’s useful for multiplayers where there is I guess endless fresh worlds/missions they can join into to get that experience.
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I feel you there I’ve started a second character but taking ages to level up with no mission at hand, all I can suggest is to go tank hunting it’s the most xp earned from enemies
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Maybe they could just lift the point limit for solo characters but then if you want to take a character online you have to choose whatever they want to limit it to. I’m annoyed with the whole thing at this point. All the crashing has spoiled a lot of the joy and then… the fact I wasted so many points to get the hacking perks that turned out to be completely useless and I can’t do anything about it but start a new character which has no missions since I’m at end game. Ugh.
Shouldn’t the explosive damage enhancement be in combat? I don’t know, everyone has their opinions, but I hate having to waste points on useless stuff I don’t want just to get one thing way down the list in another branch that I otherwise have no use for. Plus, as far as single player goes, there’s just not enough points. After you do all the missions there is still the fun of working towards upgrades… or there would be if it was allowed. Then you have a new ability to play around with for a while. As it is there’s just no reason to continue after the missions are done. It’s an addictive and immersive enough world that it could be fun to continue “being in it” if there was at least things to keep working towards like new skill points.
I still think if you crossed the beautifully rendered world, atmosphere and machines with the overall game mechanic of 7 Days to Die, adding the survival and building aspects, the landlord would show up at my house to find a skeleton in the computer chair with its hand still resting on the mouse. So maybe it’s better this way.
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