Well…That went well… 
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Between not being able to move while switching guns and not being able to change firing modes while ADSing it makes me wonder why they didn’t just delay it on console again until they found a system that didn’t totally break gameplay
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This feature ruined the game. I started playing a week ago. Fell in love with the game. Did one update. Now I am debating un-installing. I’m for sure done playing until a resolution is made.
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Sounds good.
Hopefully they can catch some ideas from here how it could be improved and not just roll back.
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I hope it does or at least an option to switch
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SO, I’ve slept on it, and these are my current thoughts:
I wouldn’t say the old UI system was perfect, but there was a definite functionality to the UI that the wheel lacks. It meant your guns used one set of button inputs, and your kit used another. This meant you could rapidly and accurately switch between the guns and kits as needed.
The big problem with the old system was it encouraged a very limited playstyle- you were only ever going to realistically carry 3 guns in the early-to-mid game, because changing between any more was a massive pain. This was also true of equipment- you rapidly learned what worked for you (in my case grenades and fireworks) and you stuck to them.
This was compounded in the late-game, where you are more likely to just carry two primary guns and no pistol, as the weight of carrying a pistol and ammo could be better allocated to more rounds for your 5c or 6c primaries and, with no bunkers to explore, and with an endless supply of.50 cal and 7.62 ammo, you’re less likely to be in a situation where the handguns give any sort of tactical advantage.
Now, I would personally argue that this was as much the fault of how certain weapons were optimised versus how the UI was set up: Why take a shotgun, when you could take a kpist or KVM? Why take a GRG when you could take a PVG? It was like the game devs made the guns “too” realistic in terms of the roles they play, but totally unrealistic in terms of how they are handled.
The problem, for me, is that all the guns weigh and feel roughly the same, so there is no tactical advantage in taking a shotgun/Kpist combo over a PVG/KVM, and so the PVG/KVM combo becomes the only sensible option, and therefore everyone, apart from a few mavericks, adopt the same playstyle.
A Kpist or shotgun, or even a hunting rifle, should be faster to use, faster to move with, faster to aim with, than a KVM or PVG. You should not be able to run, for example, with a PVG in your hands. It’s an anti-material rifle that, in real life, would weigh about 35lbs when loaded, plus scope and everything else, versus about 8lbs for the most tricked out MP5!
So, what has this got to do with the Wheel of Doom, you ask? Simply this:
The wheel was implemented to address a problem that was related to, but not CAUSED by, the old UI.
People complained that they couldn’t access things in their inventory quickly, and wanted a reason to carry more varied gear, so the devs introduced the weapon wheel.
But the reality is, is that it is the implementation of the weapon and gear types that limits peoples options, NOT the old UI.
Let’s put it like this: Even WITH the Wheel of Doom, I still only take additional weapons or kit for novelty value. There is STILL no tactical advantage in taking anything other than the PVG/KVM combo. Maybe I would view it differently if I was starting the game from absolute square one, where the limitations of ammo mean having a variety of different weapons of different calibres has a purpose, but as an end-game player with access to all the 6c weapons and their ammo schematics, the weapon wheel gives me no tactical advantage, and instead slows down my playstyle.
Saying that… I would HATE to try playing this game from scratch with the weapon wheel. Your constant need to be healing and switching weapons/kits when you’re so much squishier and your guns do so much less damage would honestly drive me up the wall if I didn’t have hotkeys.
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Been playing this game for a while now, my 2nd run though, and I had to make an account to say that I’m not a fan of this new weapon swap system. I’m on pc and it seems very slow to swap compared to the old system. Maybe it’s just a matter of getting used to it, but I much prefer the old style, would love the option to revert back if that’s at all possible?
On a more positive note, I’m really enjoying the new enemies, had no idea there was even an update coming until I logged on to play today and was kinda surprised to find robots fighting each other, pretty cool.
Hoping there’s some new themed loot/weapons that might go with them?
Thanks for the work involved, keep it coming 
5 Likes
Nice to hear it’s not just us console peasants who mostly seem to be having a rough time with the Wheel of Doom!
My solution to all of this would have been to simply change the 7 existing hotkey slots and make them open to any weapon/kit.
Players could then decide which of their gear they wanted on the hotbar, and could modify their playstyle accordingly without any drop in speed or fluidity.
Basically, any “improvement” to a UI that goes from one button input to two is doing something wrong!
7 Likes
It seems like Systemic Reaction did not playtest this new feature sufficiently for the gamepad configuration. Here, what I observed in 10 minutes:
| Mouse & Keyboard | Gamepad | |
|---|---|---|
| Moving and looking around is still possible | Yes | No |
| Can deploy/use the item automatically once closed | Yes | No |
Is intuitive*
|
Yes | Not much |
| “Selection device” | A mouse | A thumbstick which is constantly reporting its position to the game engine |
*With M&K, closing the radial menu while hovering the cursor above an item will equip the item. That’s a very intuitive twoish-steps process: Hold TAB to open the menu, hover the cursor and release TAB.
With a gamepad, that’s less intuitive. You have to hold the “Radial Menu” button, hold the thumbstick in the direction of the item you want, release the "Radial Menu button, and release the thumbstick quick enough to avoid unwanted camera/character movement, but not too quick otherwise your selection won’t be registered by the game. Here’s a second table for “table people”:
| Problem | Selecting an item requires reflexes. |
| Details | I might be wrong, but I think that a lot of games (not all of them) use the thumbstick to move the selection box to an item. Instead of having to hold the thumbstick in the direction of the item you want, you can simply select the item once, and release the thumbstick. |
| More rationales | Releasing the Radial Menu button can result in unwanted actions if the player is not fast enough. Indeed, if the player is still holding the Right thumbstick, they’ll move the camera in the direction they were holding the stick; if they were holding the Left thumbstick, their character will move. |
| Suggestion | Have the radial menu’s selection box being fixed/static instead of relative to the thumbstick’s position. |
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Personally im as on the fence as a stuck hunter about the radial wheel but I absolutely love that we can now mix weapons and consumables any which way we want and can activate more weapons with hotkeys.
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But that’s sort of the problem- it’s actually restricted accessibility, because the wheel demands two button commands rather than one. Maybe not so much of a problem on PC, where you can very accurately select items on a weapon wheel, but not so much on a controller.
It’s also harder to move and select things under fire, making the interface really unintuitive during stressful situations.
It just feels like it was implemented for PC users with no real thought for the console peasants, despite all the hard work the devs put in getting it onto Gamepass.
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Ironically, I’m pretty sure that radial menu comes from the console gaming. In fact, according to Wikipedia, Secret of Mana on the Super Nintendo was one of the first (the first?) to use a radial menu.
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I think the radial menu is a good idea. It’s just poorly implemented, IMO.
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First of all, I am happy to finally see a weapon wheel added to the game. I am sad that the implementation missed its mark, however. Also, I never expected PC players to use it - this is a console gamer request as we don’t have the ability to assign hotkeys. I think it’s the PC gamers that are complaining the most. To them I say don’t use it and move on. I hope the devs listen to feedback and issue a hot fix, rather than lose hope on the idea.
Instead of a weapon wheel I once suggested D-Pad usage with a 2-layer system, double tapping left, right, up, down to access a 2nd ring of items, but no one seemed to like that idea.
I think it works great on PC. It gives more options with what equipment to use and allows better access to items on the fly. But controls are more varied than on consoles.
2 Likes
For me it works great on ps5, too. I just have to get used to it a bit, that I don’t press R1 for changing ammo accidently any more…
The most called problem is that the left stick don’t let you move on, but is additionally set for selecting within the weapon-wheel. I would call it a bug, not a feature, as it makes no sense to have both sticks for selection.
If that is being fixed, most complaints will stop.
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Hello everybody, I play on PC and the radial menu is nice and the additional slot is quite handy.
On PC there is a disadvantage that it takes more time to switch weapons/items.
Many of you wanted to have a toggle to turn it off. I have a suggestion to solve this problem very easily.
I noticed that on PC the slots are still binded to 1-8 and if you press them you imediatelly switch weapon/item like before without the delay.
So my suggestion is: Devs please let us rebind the direct slot-keys.
If you don’t like the radial menu you simply set the keys like you had before.
And than an hybrid solution is possible. I would for example set my weapons and one healing slot on direct keys and keep the items like flares or land mines on the radial menu.
I guess it’s not as easy as you suggested.
Could you give an example how the bindings could look like?
With an xbox or ps controller you don’t have many options for rebinding unless you combine two buttons.
Actually I use the weapon-wheel as following:
Left (square) : exp AG4
Upper-left: grenades
Up (triangle) : exp Klaucke
Upper-right: fireworks
Right (circle) : exp pvg
Lower-right: sticky flares
Down (cross) : advanced health kit
Lower-left: medium emp
So I can quick select one of my three weapons in the wheel and my health kits.
The other stuff I have to use the stick for selection.
As long as I could move with the left stick while using the weapon-wheel it would be almost perfect for me. (except the missing dpad-bindings for up and down)
For my playstyle the wheel is crap. I like ro run around a lot in fights and switch between weapons and medkits and stuff to throw. It’s impossible now because you freeze while switching. And on guerilla the machines don’t miss a sitting taget. And very anoying that the left running stick also controls the wheel. It should Only be the right stick. Maybe I get used to it. Time will tell. But I do miss the old Quick and easy system. Im on Ps4.
2 Likes
I have never posted on a forum before, however, after this update came out, I noticed that a game I really enjoy is very frustrating to play. I play on the XBOX and here are my points.
Various life experiences(won’t go into detail here) have taught me three (may more, but I’ll focus on three) things related to combat/survival:
- It is essential to keep a LOS on your target, any obstruction to your field of view is a liability.
- Your loadout and familiarity with your loadout is essential to keeping your mind on your surroundings.
- Movement and positioning is essential is a combat situation.
Weapon wheel downfalls:
-
The biggest downfall is a combination of point 1 and point 3. The weapon wheel, when activated, completely blocks your visual! In the previous user interface, I could seamless switch between weapons and gear while still keeping my eye on the field. In conjunction with this, you completely stop moving when you activate your weapon wheel. Previously, you could switch from weapon to health item/flare/(insert consumable name here), and seamlessly switch back, WHILE STILL MOVING AND HAVING YOUR FULL FIELD OF VIEW.
-
This addresses point 2 above. Knowledge of, and training with your loadout is essential. Why? It allows you to STAY MOBILE AND KEEP YOUR FOCUS ON YOUR ENVIRONMENT, while seamlessly using your equipment. This keeps you alive, in games and in life. I could change a magazine and place my depleted magazines in my “empty bag” without ever taking my eyes off a target or stopping. This was possible with the PREVIOUS UI in the game, however, it is impossible now.
Finally, I would like to address that an argument I am reading is that the wheel allows you to use multiple weapons. I would like to argue that it actually limits your weapons.
Previously, you could transition between primary weapon 1 and 2 seamlessly, and without losing movement or visual. You could even transition to your secondary seamlessly as well. This allows for THREE weapons you have in immediate access using ONE button (Y), without breaking movement and visual.
This new system only allows you to equip multiple weapons, but can you TRANSITION TO THEM WITHOUT BREAKING VISUAL OR MOMENTUM? So far, I have not been able to do so. The game interface takes the two most recent items you have used and links them with the (Y) button. This can be a weapon, flare, medkit, etc. So when I press (Y) I will revert back to whatever I was using before. In mid combat, if you use a medkit, then throw a flare, pressing (Y) will not revert you back to a weapon! In a real combat situation, if I reached for my sidearm and got a flare instead, I would be dead.
So I reiterate. The previous system allowed the seamless utilization of 3 weapons, and 4 consumables, while the new system allows for the “BROKEN” utilization of 8 “items” and the seamless utilization of 2 “ITEMS,” which can be anything, not just weapons.
I also want to mention, 2 D-pad buttons that do nothing while the UI has these problems increases frustration as well.
Potential solutions:
- De-link the left stick from the weapon selection, and allow the Left stick to keep the player moving/sprinting if they so desire.
- Make the weapon wheel a small part of your visual, in the left or right side of the screen, which would allow the player to keep looking at their environment.
- Allow players to revert back to the old system, or allow linking of ONLY weapons to the (Y) button.
- Allow players to use the 2 D-Pad buttons that are not used to link health/consumables to, so at least these items can be seamlessly utilized.
Thank you for reading this thread, and please reply with any comments you may have regarding my assessment, and let me know if I am missing something.
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