The funny thing is, that we can discuss all these issues until the universe runs out of time, but I honestly don’t think that much of it will make it’s way into the game anyway.
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Very true. The thread title does not help and same goes for the overall readability.
If we really feel that some sort of difficulty settings should be implemented, that needs to be some concerted action of a small group working out a feasible, practical solution that will appeal to a lot of (potential) players.
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I get your point but in Xoggers defence (not that he need any) I think it comes in bursts. If you feels strong for the game, you want to speak about it. If you feel very strong about it, you want to speak about it a lot. And this thread has 122+ postings, so many has contributed to keeping it alive.
But, as I just stated in another posting, I think it is pretty much to no avail. It is like houwling at the moon.
Ah, cheers by the way 
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It’s not just his topics , he burst’s into others topics and puts a books worth of ’ Why ? ’ questions ’ example ’ > New comer first post , asking can we ride tank’s . Xoggers replie > ''GRINGE ‘’ < that was the first word in caps to a new forum post . - and this been the case since before you guys came here , cheers
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This sort of post worries me. I get that we each have our own reasons for sinking time (and money) into Generation Zero, and I guarantee my reasons will be different to yours.
Some of us are happy to wait and see what happens next, and some people want to suggest tweaks, some politely request changes, while others shout and flat-out make demands like it’s their (or our) game.
At the end of the day, I firmly believe that it’s entirely up to Avalanche what they do, and where they take it. While I guess they might read these forums, the last thing I want them to do is to pander to the whims of the community. Primarily because no-one on here wants precisely the same thing, so why would my request be any more valid that of anyone else?
We all want different things, and often those who shout loudest are a vocal minority. I dare say most players aren’t even aware of these forums and go about their business hunting robots blissfully unaware and awaiting the next update.
Some of the suggestions on this thread, and countless other similar ones, might improve it (for me). Meanwhile some of them would absolutely stop me playing in a heart beat.
I’d rather the team took stock of where the game is, look back at their original vision and decide exactly where *they" want to take it.
As a software developer, working on a project you believe counts for everything, while making changes you fundamentally disagree with to pander to the loudest users is never the best way to go. It’s a thankless task and rarely produces decent work.
We all bought in to the developers original vision or we wouldn’t still be here. Why shouldn’t we trust them to take it forward?
I dare say some of the features introduced that I see people complaining about as “bad decisions” or “poorly implemented” are exactly the results of hurriedly trying to please everyone, and examples of why it would be better for them to take stock and find their own path.
/rant
Sorry.
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It’s fine @OBiW4NSHiNOBi. This is your position.
I myself think that we don’t need to fear that the devs will take anything literal out of this thread. But it seems to distill itself that an ongoing issue with this game is its difficulty, which seemingly goes up and down. One thing that manifests over time in this thread is the potential need for a difficulty setting for this game. If this thread manages to produce this insight and find enough supporters in the community here, it might be worthwhile for the devs to give it some serious consideration.
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If this thread should be distilled into one sentence, you just did it (IMHO). Sometimes I would like to fast forward to something more interesting, so getting stuck in a tough fight annoys me. It might be a gatekeeper, or a timed fight which supposedly should be the case on the new island. Settings for difficulty would be cool.
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Unfortunately, difficulty level is more complicated than most people seem to appreciate and individual settings are largely unworkable in an online game of this type.
The solutions I’ve seen talked about are great for solo players, but in the real world, the chances are that your settings are different to mine, whose are different to his, and different to hers.
We all join a game with our custom settings but the game uses the hosts, and only one of us is happy with the results.
The simplest way around that is to complicate the already fragile matchmaking system. Which will both increase matchmaking times and limit the player base for each player with their own settings.
While you might be able to balance damage / health on a per player basis in a single session you couldn’t realistically have individual settings that govern AI / enemy behaviour on a per player basis in a multiplayer session.
Difficulty levels work for single player, or a single world. Great for those that want to play solo, or for private co-op sessions. For those of us that like to hop in and out of multiplayer sessions it’s not a realistic prospect. Not without limiting the pool of available players.
Just my $0.02
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This is what Xog already suggested and - for me personally - would be a simple and fine solution. You can talk about it with your buddies before the session.
And I don’t play with randos, I don’t really understand why you would in such a game. But hat is just me.
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There already is a game out there that overall matches your insane difficulty level and that’s called: DayZ.
There’s no point making GZ into DayZ clone. GZ is unique in it’s own right and i like the uniqueness of GZ. Some additions to the game i agree with (e.g storage box, rivals), others i’m indifferent about (e.g bikes) but what i don’t like are the features that made the game easier than it was intended by the devs in the 1st place.
I’ve played GZ since launch and back in the good old days, you actually had to work hard for what you wanted to get. Few examples:
- When you picked up a mission (main or side), only info you had was location name and primary goal (e.g go to X spot, find out what happened). Once at the location, you had to search and explore the area to find clues (mission items) to get more info what is going on. Once you picked up the clue, you actually had to read what it said, so you know in which direction to advance next. That made every mission a small treasure hunt, where you actually had to use your head and think what to do.
Now, there are POI icons: “go through that door”, “pick this item up” that spoon feed you into the right spot across the whole map.
ONLY saving grace is that you can disable POI icons from Game settings.
Also, the missions themselves were much harder as well. For example:“Beyond the Barricade” (South Coast). At the end of the mission, there is gas filled house. And that gas was very, VERY deadly. The deadliest gas i met in game. I lost 20HP per second when i went in there! I had to constantly heal myself, find way through the gas, locate mission item and get out alive ASAP. Loved that mission. Few months back, i helped friend out and he also did that mission. I did warn him about the very deadly gas and he went it. Somehow, he was able to be in there far longer than i was, so i also went into the gas and behold, i only lost 1HP per second. The essence what made this mission special was lost. - When i started out, like all, i found 2* Möller. And 1* Glock as well from a secret place at the 1st safehouse. Next weapon i got was 2* 12G shotty (Old Bettan mission), 3rd weapon was 2* .243 s-rifle (The Hunter mission). I had that setup until i reached Vesslan command bunker. From Vesslan, i got another new weapon: 1* AG4. Some exploring near Vesslan and i found 1* Kpist (at known spawn point). Salthamn naval base gave 1* m/49 and that was it. I explored the entirety of Archipelago region and managed to find 2* AG4. No other type of weapon spawned in Archipelago than the ones i already had. I left the Archipelago region where my best weapon was 2*.
Next i did South Coast and when i left South Coast, my best quality weapon was 3*.
3rd region i did was Mountains, since i figured mountains with trees offer me better coverage than open farmlands (and i struggled a lot since back then, Mountains were one of the hardest, if not THE hardest regions in game). When i left 3rd region, my best weapon quality was 4*.
Only when i reached Marshlands and started to take down FINX tanks, i got my hands on 5* weapons. But that was near the end-game, where some of the missions also gave you 5* weapons (they still do).
That’s how it WAS. Game gradually gave you better weapons and by the time you reached the end, you got some (not all) 5* weapons. At current time, this is not how game is.
NOW, any type of weapon can spawn in Archipelago and you can even get 6* weapons in the very 1st region. There is no gradual introduction to weapons and their qualities as it once was. - 3rd and final example since my reply is getting long.
In the beginning, i had to explore and search for my gear, including ammo and first aid kits. That was fun. Machines did gave some ammo (specific ammo from each machine type, e.g 9mm Glock from military runners or .50 cal + rockets from FINX tank) and it was very rare to get advanced first aid kit from FINX harv.
Now, machines are walking treasure chests, almost completely eliminating any reason to search for the ammo and first aid kits.
Take down a runner and simple first aid kit is guaranteed in 90% of the time. Same with hunters - take it down and standard first aid kit is guaranteed in 90% of the time. Advanced first aid kits used to be very rare and valuable items but now, you can get one from every tank/harv you take down, making it common item.
Same is with ammo. It used to be where ONLY FINX hunters and tanks gave you .50 cal ammo and rockets. I had to use Ammo Packs that i found to keep my .50 cal and HE rocket supply up. Back then, there were ammo types that were rare: .50 cal, rockets, .44 Magnum and 5.56mm. Latter two didn’t spawn from machines at all while former two spawned only from the two most deadliest machines (FINX tank and FINX hunter).
Now, you can get rockets from multiple enemies: FINX runner, military hunter, all harv types, all tank types.
Ammo and first aid kit looting system was messed up by those lazy players who didn’t want to play the game as it was intended (explore, find loot boxes, collect your ammo from the world), instead, they wanted to get the loot from the machines they destroyed. So, the devs implemented the system where you can get first aid kits from enemies and 80% of wasted ammo back when taking down harvs/tanks.
GZ was intended to be harder than the average game where you play it with your buddy (co-op) but which can be played in Single Player as well (with added difficulty, e.g no backup in combat or no-one to discuss with how to advance in missions).
At current point, GZ is in the state where it spoon feeds players through missions and gives instant rewards to players so that they don’t have to think nor work hard for their loot.
Not all games have to be easy or easier. There are games out there that are hard and the fact that they are so hard to beat makes them special and sought after. One of the best examples is Dark Souls 3. I haven’t played Dark Souls 3 myself but i’ve heard that it’s brutally difficult.
Now, imagine this: if the FromSoftware (devs of Dark Souls 3) would’ve listened majority of their player base and made the game easier with post-launch updates than it currently is, then it would’ve been another average dungeon crawler game without any special traits. Nerfing the Dark Souls 3 makes it to loose it’s essence. And it’s that essence (brutal difficulty) that makes Dark Souls 3 unique.
I, just like Xogroroth, am sad that the GZ has strayed from the path it was, when i bought GZ week after it’s launch.
What i am happy about, is that i got to enjoy GZ and finish all my main and side vanilla missions before those game nerfs came that i described above.
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I like they way you describe the missions have been. I wish it was still the case. You can disable POI from the world but not from compass or the map.
Are you sure? Because I started not long ago. And as you described it as gradual above it was exactly for me.
I repeat, that is not how it is in my game. Often? Yes. 90%? Far from it. I have healing abundantly because I loot every house on the map (not kidding).
Plus: Harvesters basically bring nothing I need, not even rocket (maybe because I destroy the rocket launchers?). Runners don’t either. Hunters sometimes. Tanks a lot, I agree. But only after using the Exp AG4 and PVG90 that means I get more ammo than I have used.
I kind of agree to that. The missions are super simple: Go there and destroy the gas station (what, that was it already? at first I thought I messed up the mission because I did not preserve the gas station while taking out the enemies; gas is a valuable resource in post-apocalyptica, after all).
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I agree with all of that - I don’t think there is any need to spoonfeed. I noticed the other day that I didn’t bother to search houses any more, or cars, or garages. You found missions by searching for items, but the “Instagrat” boys and girls want it all up front. Good point.
P.S. when I first started the game I didn’t even know about Fast Travelling. If I wanted to go back somewhere, I walked. It paced the game, made it worthwhile to kill each machine, to clear each group of buildings. You fought for a hamlet because you needed to search it. It was better. If i wanted to search a military installation, i had to plan how to get there from where I was, and make it an operartion.
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Actually, you can disable the mission POIs from compass too if you “stop tracking” the mission from log menu. World POI icons do remain on compass though, including safehouses, bike racks and storage boxes, if you’re within 250m of them.
100% sure? No. But i’ve done quite a bit of MP, including randomly joining new, low lvl players and i’ve seen them using weapons that i didn’t have access to when i 1st played GZ. Not the 5* ones but 3*, 4* ones that i didn’t have access to so early on. And when i asked them where they got those, i got an answer that they found those from inside weapon crates.
Of course, that’s the minor thing compared to the rivals unlocked from start and chance to get 6* weapons from the very first rival.
IMHO, rivals should unlock after you’ve completed the main missions. After all, they are the end-game or even post end-game enemies due to their difficulty. Well, they can be unlocked from start for added challenge but their 6* weapon drop should be locked behind final mission.
In the beginning, runners and hunters didn’t gave any first aid kits whatsoever. That’s another issue with current state of GZ which reduces the need for exploration.
Edit:
When i was completing my missions, i also always scouted the area/base from different locations and i planned the best entry point, including where i can take cover when i advance inside the installation. I often also marked the closest house with my waypoint, so when more enemies join the fight and i have to make a tactical retreat, i have a heading to the closest cover.
My gameplay style is sneak and snipe. Due to that, most of the exploration was done in crouching stance. Slow - Yes. But i also didn’t want to accidentally engage in combat, especially in unexplored part of the map. I also pick my battles and make calculated decisions if it’s worthwhile for me to engage machines in combat or not.
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Funny enough, the Ninja Pizza Girl (a game developed by a single guy, IIRC) achieves both (see above screenshot). It presents a single difficulty slider, for those who do not want more. For the others, there’s a “Custom” toggle next to it that exposes the individual configurables. Win-win.
Doesn’t mean it can’t still be fun to discuss it.
That’s almost too obvious.
The corollary of course is that it’s up to us whether we’ll give them more money, and how we’ll adjust our reviews.
In fairness, people have suggested making things configurable. For that matter, if we had proper modding, the game could be “anything to anyone”, and they could pop up a big red disclaimer saying, “Loading mods. This voids your right to support.”
Of course it’s very possible they don’t have the personpower to create suitable support for this, but in theory at least it seems to void your point.
Because various people feel they’ve already compromised this vision.
(For that to hold true, people don’t actually need to agree on what that original vision might have been. We’ve seen complaints about difficulty, gun realism/flavor, NPCs, world consistency, challenges, and other things.)
For that matter, the game (when counting the DLC) now ends on a somewhat bitter note for those who like the slow, methodical “ghost” approach, because the last mission takes that away by introducing a timer. It does leave a bit of an aftertaste, and makes you wonder whether it’s a sign of the things to come.
You do you, but personally, I think the “everything” can be your artistic vision (in which case you can people to fork off if they don’t like it, use the source, Luke, and all that), or the “everything” can be providing a full fridge for your family. Trying to achieve both in the same project sounds like a recipe for disappointment.
Let’s be fair though.
The match system is a disgrace at this point, as anyone who’s repeatedly ended up in the same session where the host’s idling can attest to. I realize that providing a match browser takes some additional work, but having entries with Host/ActiveMission/Area to choose from would be a boon. Now more than ever, with the DLC and all. I want to say “or short term, at least randomize the order in the result-set so the next join won’t always end up being to the exact same session as before”, but I’m too afraid of someone saying, “you know, it already does that, so that’s probably the only game in town at that time.” 
It’s not like it couldn’t be done (MMOs tend to offer the same dungeon/raid in various difficulties, Borderlands 2 lets you decide whether you wish to join a normal game, medium difficulty (TVHM), or highest difficulty (UVHM), and so on).
Because your friends don’t play the game? Or because they do, but you’re up at a stupid hour and would like to team-shoot bots for a bit before bed? Sometimes, it’s just nice to not have to organize a session, but just have one with people who happen to be awake and willing.
Haha, yes. When I first saw the new way, I was baffled (“Wait, did we always have this? Was I just not tracking the quest? Am I an idiot?” 
) I generally preferred the old way (partially because it meant that you’d fully explore the bunkers first – uphill! in the dark! – though on the downside that meant you suddenly had a 1+ hour commitment).
If they got complaints, I bet it was about Salthamn or Kålleby. Having to check every single building under fire (twice in the case of Kålleby) would have exhausted most people’s goodwill.
That strikes me as very broken, yes.
And thank gd for that!
It severely cuts down on the most boring part of the game.
It’s like having to shave your legs for an hour every time you start the game.
Why would I ever engage a tank otherwise? I already lose time on that, if I lose ammo as well, there’s really no incentive. 
“lazy” seems a curious accusation to level. People don’t want to work in game that they bought to have fun? Whoda thunk! The flipside of that is obviously the question, “If people perceive this as an unfun chore, has the game failed at making its mechanics fun?”
Now you’re just talking sense.
The problem is that the exploration of scenery is rewarded with seeing really gorgeous scenery. The exploration of houses is punished by seeing the same old house.
Oh boy must you have hated the final mission.
I’m only sad we lost the ability to crawl. 
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What’s your playstyle? Run and gun?
There WAS an incentive and a good one to engage tanks, especially FNIX tanks despite that you only got little ammo in return.
Before the nerfs, it was 100% guaranteed that every single FINX tank gave you 5* weapon and sometimes 5* weapon mod as well. FNIX harvs also gave 5* weapons and 5* mods but their drop rate was about 60% or so.
Here are few images what it used to be. Note: i have Salvage skill at level 2, but despite that, ammo drop from FINX tank was still peanuts. Fuel cell, EMP and vision mod are visible thanks to Mechanic skill at level 2.
2nd image as well:
Now, the drop rate of 5* weapons and 5* mods from FNIX tanks/harvs are slim to none. Instead, you now get your “precious” ammo from them.
While it’s true that houses are repetitive, devs don’t have enough manpower to make each and every house unique. Do not forget, Avalance Studios isn’t as big as EA is.
Which one you mean? Behind the Curtain or The Resistance?
If it’s former then it wasn’t that hard. I just didn’t go in from the front door. What i did, was sneaking in from the back side of FOA5 (coming from NE). There is a spot where fence is low and you can jump across the fence. That’s what i did. Once inside the compound, i sneaked West and perched myself just above the underground base entrance. It is ideal spot to snipe machines. They can’t run to you and you’re covered behind by the fence. Flanks are narrow and easily defensible.
If it’s the latter then yes, i had hard time fighting solo with waves of machines. Especially apo hunters and their cluster bombs. Though, i’d like to redo that mission since i want to test out different tactic rather than being on the ground and next to the barricades. But sadly, i can’t redo the mission in my game. Unless i join someone else’s game and help them out with it.
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I don’t think it’s relevant to the issue.
I played very “guerilla” during the beta, very “sneak and explore” in early game, avoiding pretty much all fights I could, and nowadays, I either snipe and run, or go in guns blazing depending on how much patience I have on a given day, so to the extent that “play-style” applies, it could best be described as “eclectic”, and at no time during these many hours in many playstyles have I enjoyed opening every container. Some people seem to enjoy it. That’s fine. But to me, it’s like watching paint dry. If I have an hour to play the game, I’d prefer to spend as much of that hour as possible playing the game, and as little as possible running chores so I can play the game.
Strange, I certainly remember those drop rates from co-op way back, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen them in solo.
(Incidentally this seems to mirror my experience with the tier 6 weapons; I didn’t see a single drop in solo for two weeks or so, where in co-op, they dropped left and right.)
True, but I can see how that decision makes sense. A gun drop is useful once, then you have that gun. Ammo is useful every time.
(I feel golds should be mission rewards anyway, as is already the case for some guns. I despise random drops. If two people do the same work, they should get the same pay.)
True, but irrelevant. My point was that I find the houses boring. Just because I understand why that is the case doesn’t magically make them interesting.
My bad, apologies. I meant The Resistance.
(“Behind the curtain” in my mind is just “the mission with the awful monologue” – I don’t think I fired a single shot. But I may misremember.)
I’d much love the abilities to repeat missions, for that exact reason.
(Also, I’m pleased to have read elsewhere that other people have also adopted the “top floor” strategy, I thought maybe, I was being strange. That would be a lot easier without hunters getting stuck in the hotel, though.)
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When I go back to the starting area, I don’t find any 3-star weapons ever. Still today. For me weapon finds depend on region and player level. I noticed that my finds were lower tier when playing with lower level buddies. Some people venture to weapon locations in different regions they find on the interwebs very early in order to be better equipped. There are also cheats/trainers out there that boost you.
I am all with you in general. Only, how I play the game, I roam around a lot and explore. The main missions in a new region are usually what I do last. That way I would get the exp weapons only after the complete game (granted, before the DLC(s) that is).
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To quote someone quoting Avalanche on the JC3 wiki
" Everyone here at Avalanche loves the modding community. A lot of us came from the modding community, so there’s a lot of will to help it out. Umm… we would love people to continue modding Avalanche games. We think it’s an homage to when people are willing to spend their personal time to come up with awesome and crazy ideas and build incredible new systems. " - Roland Lesterlin, JC3 game director, in some JC3-related interview.
This sadly doesn’t seem to apply to GZ. Is it because it’s unfinished? Or for IP reasons? Or…?
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Sir, yes, I make several posts, lengthy, true.
Sadly I cannot ‘control’ what other read or do not read…
Could you agree with this, sir?
Each here is free to read what he/she wants, no? 
OH, I misinterpreted it, my apologies.
Yes, not all see things the same way, which I respect.
I have no glass ball, I can only speculate where things MIGHT end up, and my ideas are therefore prone to variables, just like any other.
Is there even a “right or wrong” here?
Only time I believe can tell… well, and of course testing, but that’s a bit far fetched in this matter.
I admitted already, I am not not a coder, I have no idea if it would be good, it would be NICE, but…
Again, if they implemented game difficulties, HELL YEAH I am all for that.
As for additions, I would appreciate some level of choice then.
Still, that’s me.
[quote=“pegnose, post:118, topic:21045”]
Again, this was pure display config. You appear to be on a hot streak, Xog!
[/quote]Sorry… my wife told me to go to bed, I seemed way off yesterday.
Very heavy meds, and I do not notice it myself.
Been a good lad and actually went to bed… :’(
[quote=“TherotcoD, post:120, topic:21045”]
Aye cheers , i was pointing out what most are thinking , people new and time served here will come and see xoggers constant quesioning and be gone in seconds , taking multiple peoples post and reposting them with questions is not a crime, but its just everywhere.
cheers
[/quote]I try to keep my things in one thread, I do read nigh all of them, but refer from posting.
I was too fast in a suggestion post (rideable tanks), I apologized, and meant it.
Just was… bad…
The person that set me straight, pointed that out, just was correct.
Thank you, person, who ever you were, I appreciate that!!!
[quote=“IanForce, post:123, topic:21045”]
I get your point but in Xoggers defence (not that he need any)…
[/quote]True, I feel SO damn strong about this incredible marvel…
Thank you.
The cringe…
How I regret this.
I did not delete it, I don’t like “cover ups”, and as I said above (incidentally about this): I was SO wrong!
And whomever set me straight there, THANK YOU!!!
I am mere human, I too make mistakes, some worse than others, I am FAR from perfect.
BUT!!!
THAT is where YOU guys come it…
YOU set me straight, when I do wrong.
Thank you.
Yes, @TherotcoD, YOU, sir, YOU as well… respect!!!
Thank you.
@OBiW4NSHiNOBi
Ah, marvellous post, thank you.
I agree, in the end of the day, it is Avalanche who decides, which I stated before in here as well.
This is why I began ‘to rage on’ for modularity.
IMHO, I respect ALL players, the WHOLE community, you do not agree?
Tell me, I won’t eat you alive, more, I appreciate your input.
Now, HOW do we please all… or… so many as possible?
That is where I got stuck (yes… STUCK) in the slider idea.
That is where my brain crashed, it began to loop…
I saw SO many posts for change in EVERY way: impossible for Avalanche to do.
Or… is it…
This very question is where the loop began…
I read ALL again, trying to figure out where things went awol, I think it was at that moment.
Not an excuse, mind, explanation.
There IS no excuse, period.
I just do not want to see people leave due to a change in game.
We need EVERYONE right now…
And sliders suddenly seemed “the epiphany” of the moment…
Sir, truly a darn awesome post.
[quote=“pegnose, post:126, topic:21045”]
It’s fine @OBiW4NSHiNOBi. This is your position.
I myself think that we don’t need to fear that the devs will take anything…
[/quote]+1
I think we should indeed give the Devs credit, in the end, it is their call…
We can provide ideas, motivations, but it’s in the end they who decide where to go.
Might end up in a flight sim, if that is their choice…
@Aesyle
Ummm, is Dayz the same as GZ?
I care not for zombies, I do care a lot for GZ.
If it all was mere for difficulty, I would have parachuted in the middle of a Syrian warzone…
I’m sorry, but with all due respect, that was not quite nice.
I am not so superficial in such regards, sir.
Still, I respect your thoughts in the matter.
Now, about the second part, and this I brought up during this entire thread, this I would love SO much to get back.
But not in a way, it’s shoved through everyone’s throat, but optional.
I do NOT want ANY change that would be bad for someone else’s fun.
Now, I do know that is impossible in the end, of course, I am not unrealistic, still…
The LEAST harm/hurt brought to this already quite small population that plays GZ, the better, I think…
Very nice post, thank you.
Thank you all for participating.
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I always feel it is a good time to mod a game when it is actually EoL (end of life). When there is no new content coming, to keep it breathing and interesting to buy. GZ is far from done yet.
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