So the arms race is on ,,, sigh!

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A word of warning: This posting is made by a bitter old fart who doesn’t share the young adults constant craving for bigger machines and more firepower! It is intended to be negative in spirit and sarcastic in form and my hope is that it will cause the reader to contemplate what this world is coming to … a sad and hopeless place with the prospect of endless fighting until the death. And again. And again!

Now that the dust from the October release is slowly settling we can conclude that the arms race is on. And the game has taken a turn that I kind of anticipated and feared and don’t approve of at all. If you bring a club to a fist fight, you escalate the conflict. So all will bring clubs. Then knifes. Then guns. Then automatic rifles. Then rockets, nuclear warheads, antimatter canisters … sigh!. Give people 5 star weapons and only 6 star weapons will do. And then 10. And certainly 20 must be better. So why not get it over with once and for all and give us the Kill-O-Zap gun. In the words of late Douglas Adams:

“Instruct the designers not to beat about the bush. Tell them to make it evil, to make it clear that the gun has a right end and a wrong end, and make it obvious to anyone at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If it is necessary to attach spikes, prongs, and blackened bits all over the gun, then: so be it.”

I started up the October release and noticed that nothing had really changed … for the first few minutes. Then - Bing! - a “Rival” harvester had spawned somewhere nearby and was supposedly very cross with me. I opened my map … which is no longer a map, since a red X had appeared on it, and it moved every time I took my map out of my pocket and checked it again. And it grew more and more p!ssed with me over time. Well, okay, so I decided to deal with it. And then it crached and dropped a 6-star pump gun. It looked a bit weird but we shouldn’t judge each other by the looks. Then - Bing! - another “Rival” turns up nearby. Equally p!ssed, apparently. Okay, let’s find out what that is about. So I brought forward my new pump gun and greeted it with a round. FIREWORKS !!?!? My pump gun shot freaking fireworks!! I promise you, these were ordinary shells! And suddenly they behave like fireworks! That is down right silly.

Last time I checked the GZ homepage (a few minutes ago) the “Next chapter” talks about expanding Ôstertörn, adding missions and stuff. Since April there has been no new missions and Ôstertörn is never changing. We have had a Challenge score board that I actually couldn’t care less about, and now “Rivals” … machines building up a grudge which in my world is irrational and therefore entirely undesirable for AI. A magnificent piece of work has been delivered in Generation Zero but since the initial release it seems to me that the game has been in maintenance mode, elaborating on low hanging fruits like adjusting machine behaviour and throwing in some new (and unrealistic) guns. And next thing we’ll get a boss fight.

And then it is Halloween! Let’s dress up everybody, because that is what you do when the apocalypse is upon you. Let’s make GZ into a circus!

Remember I told you that I’m bitter and old. All the above is crowd pleasing. And a lot of guys love it. But I don’t. I’m bitter and old! I found all the safe houses. There are no more missions. The story is at a total stand-still. I can’t use the boats. I can’t get into the stores. I can’t even restore infrastructure by carrying spare part bits and pieces from a bunker storage to a radio mast. I don’t enjoy the game anymore. So I’m probably not going to play it anymore before something NEW AND EXCITING is added (which I would be happy to pay for, by the way).

So am I disappointed about the way the game is going? Yes. Am I discontent with the game so far? Not at all. This game has given me endless hours of first class gaming entertainment. It has been absolutely marvellous and it has been worth every penny ten times over. But if this is the way the game is going, it is not really my game anymore.

Now, feel free to disagree :slightly_smiling_face:

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Everyone is free to voice their opinions, both positive and negative @IanForce so don’t worry i totally accept and respect your feelings! As should everyone else in the community.
This slightly echoes sentiments i had in my video, and i can’t disagree that the arms race is officially on. (though they are not fireworks but flechette rounds, though i totally get what you’re saying)
I think the rivals update added some cool unique experiences to the game and did bring about a lot of good, especially for people that felt “they had done it all”. But on the other hand there is a level of acceptance we need to have, this is the developers baby, and we’re like the extended family. If the devs decide to do something along these lines it is healthiest for us to accept where they want to bring the game, and weigh in with our opinions on how those should be tweaked and fixed and reworked so that both the developers are happy with their game, and us as the fans are happy with the game.
It’s a difficult knife to balance on, but its one that i think the devs have done so pretty well with up until this point!
If this becomes something that is a bitter thing to play, then it is best to give it a break for a bit and come back in a while to see if that bitterness has subsided, though you are a valuable member of this community so i’d hope even if you do decide to stop playing that you do at least keep in touch on here :wink:
Again, all opinions are valid, this is what working with a community means. But when it comes to this update, and the challenges, and the plundra and the bikes it’s best for the devs to hear all opinions, then make the final decision on what is best in their eyes for the game moving forward.
I’m kinda playing devils advocate here a bit so sorry if any of this is not to your liking my dude!

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Now I’m gonna be blunt here but I agree with @IanForce, the game doesn’t need more powerful guns or bigger machines. I personally think the game would be much better if they made it even harder, and if they did even with the experimental weapons machines could still absolutely kick your a$$. Games I love to bits always have challenges to them, like subnautica for example. In subnautica, even if you have the best equipment and the greatest machines, the world can still absolutely hand your a$$ to you, as Leviathans are still much more powerful than you, making you fear them. Generation zero should take an approach like this, because the most memorable moment I have in this game was first seeing a tank roam the streets of a small town, and it scared me. The game should make machines tougher, a force to be reckoned with if you will.

I would also like if the game took on an even more serious tone, adding to the environment.

I have more ideas and critiques for this game but I reckon I might just make a YouTube video detailing that. (Even though I don’t really want to make a YouTube channel)

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@tene, I hope that it is obvious to everybody that I love this game. If I didn’t I would never spend a Friday evening writing a long post to the forum :wink:

And I know that it is a game. Just a game. So consider my stated feelings more like a well ment provocation. Everybody wants to drag GZ in a particular direction that suite their taste, and I am no exception. Basically what I am voicing is a concern about making changes that can’t be unmade later if the story is ment to be continued.

Absolutely! I totally agree. Being a fan doesn’t give me (or others) a vote, and if it did, the game would end up as one big mess. But I see so much more potential from my perspective, and that is just what I try to point out. The whole “Rival” thing is constantly reminding me, that I have to fight these things. Not just when I encounter them on my way through Östertörn.

And, just to avoid confusions, the whole “bitternes” thing was 100% self-irony :wink:

Anyway, I have to take a break from GZ as major refurbishing work is about to start on my home, so my game console will be unavailable for the next four weeks :scream:

And, don’t worry, I will play again because I can’t imagine that the story will end here. And I will stick around in the (supercool) forum, because you really need a bitter, old fart like me to stick around and be annoying :wink:

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Oh of course man, someone said it on my video and it totally applies here too, if you didn’t love the game you wouldn’t say anything at all! You stating these things and your hopes to see the game be better is just pure validation of you being a fan of GZ and an even bigger one than the people that will sit idly by. :smiley:
I think its great you’ve voiced your opinions man, and heck if you don’t then it just means you definitely won’t see your feelings respected, because i can say with confidence the dev team reads our posts and weighs them all seriously!
Yes it’s the same for me, that was a tough pill to swallow this week after i made my ranty video, but its true if we all expect the game to only go our way we’re just setting ourselves up for disappointment. BUT that doesn’t change the fact that we should voice these things, to at least, for our own sakes, not build up any resentment that could make playing this game truly unenjoyable.
Good luck with the refurb my dude, thats a mountain of work i know from my own experience!!
Thank you too for sticking around, we’ve lost too many good people on here :smiley:
And heck if i consider you to be bitter OR a fart :smile:

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I kinda disagree but also agree at the same time. I don’t think the game is going in a bad direction but I do think it might be too soon. As already stated,expanding on the map,story and assets already there would have been a better direction. Aside from that there is a number of bugs that still need to be fixed as well,that should come first because with new content comes new bugs usually.

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Well, it looks like we need to have a choice/split at the opening screen, with one going multiplayer kickass with upgrades and killier machine than the original killer machines and the other keeping to the spirit of the original.

What I want is not better weapons, but an ongoing storyline. You find out what has happened, and then what? You are now in contact with the mainland - why is the mainland not giving you missions to do? They can’t get you out, or anyone else in because of the air defences, but they need you to do stuff - you are the only one in-country - you are the only asset they have, but the machines must be stopped, and they’re all working together out there to stop it spreading to the mainland and throughout Europe. Help! they say, you are the only one who can do this…

The machines are trying to reproduce and get out into Europe - they have plans and tactics and strategies, and these must be stopped. So you find a base somewhere central, next to a radio mast, and wait for the next mission. Might be a reconnaissance somewhere - get in and out without being seen - take photos and send them to the mainland. Blow up that bridge/factory/research facility, get feedback on what the mainland is doing and how it is going - quick blow up that boat before they can use it to cross over… Repeat ad infinitum, with more islands…

How hard can a mission be? Expand the story - go into details - explore individuals’ attempts to escape or re-enter. That way you’ve got us forever…

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Exactly @Bootie, beautifully formulated and my wish exactly! I was actually wondering about “game templates” where you could choose your preferences like missions, collaboration, survival, toughness, apparel, rivals, bikes, plundra, scifi weapons, etc. I would never try to stand in the way of the preferences of others, and I really believe that GZ could do it all. Right now the “silly” experimental weapons only leaves me two viable explanations: either they are alien technology and eventually we’ll find an UFO crash site on one of the islands, or they have been brought back from the future in the Volvo DeLorean. Out of two bad explanations, the UFO one is the better :confused:

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After this update, I got my main storyline back and finished the story. Now I want more. The promo video before the release promised a guerilla war - okay, that was the plan, let’s stick to it. I quite like my new AG4 with the De Wilde ammunition, and I think the .50 cal should have kicked ass from the start, so I’m okay with those - the shotgun, you have to stick in his snotbox to get a result, so I’m all right with that. Most automatic weapons (including the AG4) normally fire at around 620 rounds per minute. To get quicker you need a gatling gun. Okay for all that. I don’t even mind the machine brain building special robots to counter a specific threat (as I am in the game). But. I should be fighting the machine brain - the bloke who talked to me at the end.

We need story. We need involvement, because otherwise we will eventually tire, and there’s no need. Somebody at Avalanche ought to be full-time developing the story, and doing nothing else. Let’s tell them!

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Yes, STORY! Hear, hear, hear! :+1:

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I think it would be neat for the Americans to somehow be implemented into the story along the line, maybe having a bit of a small feud with some remaining soviet forces? Not like human on human violence, but more so kind of Cold War like relations. It would make for a pretty interesting side story as they would have to work together to achieve a common goal.

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Yes, Eighties Sweden was a neutral country just in the middle between east and west. Something interesting could certainly evolve …

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I honestly don’t understand why people always act like that’s a problem. They got our money. We got a decent game. It was fun while it lasted. After that, well I’m sure you have several hundred unplayed games in your Steam account just as I have. Not sure where this assumption that we must play GZ for the rest of our lives comes from?

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Agreed, I was led to believe the game would have one.
We get some exposition in the opening title card, and then we get a valuable infodump in Empty Spaces.

If we’re feeling generous, let’s count To the Lighthouse (or whichever mission unlocks the info in the SW lighthouse) as supporting Empty Spaces, and then Spiking the Guns for some pointers about how things went down. And then any one other mission for “everyone’s been evacuated.”

That’s 2 missions, 5 on the outside, that have a bit of valuable exposition (and a lot that have flavor, of course). Does that really a story make?

This is not helped by the final mission mostly having a bunch of rambling. Could a native speaker of Swedish please comment? Is the English translation needlessly bad? Do things make more sense in Swedish? Or is the conclusion just really a bit of a letdown?

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Sure, @Ennui. Just have @Avalanche_Graham remove the “Next Chapter” from the homepage and I promise you that I’m out of here :wink:

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Try though I might, I can’t find the least bit wrong with your opening statement. :smile:

I too would prefer a low frequency of quality content over a high frequency of meaningless cheapshots (if memory serves, this was also what @tene requested in their video).

I would very specifically also like to have such content be DLC, so I can choose to get it, or not, rather than have the game I agreed to buy changed after the fact. (“It’s like George Lucas coming to my house and replacing my Star Wars with one where Han doesn’t shoot first!”)

Amongst other things, this currently negates achievements after the fact (“I got the best games in the gun!”). This is made more galling by the fact that it’s easy to add new stuff without devaluing the old, as I elaborate on here:

Ironically, if in your Steam library you call up your GZ DLC, Rivals for instance is listed. Yet if you deselect it and start the game, you’ll still have Rivals (which is obviously a bug), otherwise it would be a splendid invitation: “here’s new stuff as DLC that you can get if you like it, or skip otherwise.”

This bit puzzles me a bit.
Sure, as a non-dev, or a non-party member, you usually don’t get a before-the-fact vote.
But as a customer, and a regular voter, you can certainly act after the fact and never vote for/buy from people who disappointed you again, tell all your friends your gripes and urge them to do likewise, and write reviews accordingly.

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Yes, I might be sulking, but I’m not mean (I hope).

I hoped that this part of my initial posting added fairness to my otherwise harsh words. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I was not objecting to your gripes.
I was puzzled by your assertion that we have no recourse. We can voice our opinions, and if we’re sufficiently bothered we can, while they already have our money, not give them more ever again, and do our darndest to convince others to do likewise.

As a theoretical point, mind, I don’t currently hate the game or the developers. :smile:

But with each of these nonsense updates I lose a little bit of faith in the game and the developer. Since they already have my money and these updates are free, the only reason I can see to do this is trying to trick us into being in-game to boost the statistics in steam and perhaps prevent “zomg multi-player’s dead!” reviews.
I don’t generally respond well to the feeling of being tricked.

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I’m not out to punish anyone. I already got my moneys worth and for that I’m content. I don’t like where the game seems to be going, but if me leaving is compensated by five new joining, Avalanche is doing the right thing, namely making money. If the additions and changes they made to the game appeals to a wider audience, I’m not going to be a sore looser. I just think that they take something special and turn it into mainstream. So I voice my opinion here but I don’t expect to have influence.

And so do I. The October release was presented as something big, and I expected more map and more story. I don’t use bikes, I could do without the Plundra, I’m not into skins (I play solo), I think the experimental weapons are silly, and I don’t get the Rivals idea at all. So I’ll wait for “Next chapter” stuff if it eventually arrives, and until then I’ll probably spend my time off cuddling my cat (and my wife) :wink:

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While I’m sure vengeance is the best revenge :smile:, I don’t really primarily see it in those terms. In beta, and early game-play, it was obvious that we had something really special here, and I wrote reviews accordingly, and convinced some people to buy the game.

So by that token, if I’m honest to my friends and in my reviews when I think the game is in a fantastic place, I must also be honest when I have a sense of foreboding about the direction the game takes. Personal integrity dictates it must be so.

Yup. Once more, exactly likewise.
(Well, my cat and spouse, but yeah. :smile:)

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